Antique Stove Terminology

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Ultralume
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Post by Ultralume » Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 11:09 pm

I have a few questions about antique stove types and terminology.
Oak Style Stove: Is an oak style stove simply a barrel type wood or coal stove that is direct draft? Where does that name come from?
Magazine: Is that another name for a hopper or does the name imply another function? Is the magazine a hopper that pre heats coal to emit gases and burn the gases by recirculating them through the fire?
Suspended pot: Stoves in which the burn pot is not in direct contact with the stove body to allow for higher combustion temps?
Base burner: Is this a stove that simply redirects flue gases down the stove and back up to extract more heat from the fire similar to what a Vermont Castings Vigilant coal stove does, or is it more complicated process involving the collection of gases produced by preheated coals in the “magazine” to be circulated past the burn pot for combustion resulting in greater heat output?

Seems like the antique stoves are interesting. I’d certainly would like to get one eventually but don’t know about the particulars of operation and what to look for..

 
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Post by franco b » Tue. Nov. 30, 2021 7:56 am

Suspended pot refers to a type of stove in which the flue gas can be directed down around the fire pot and then to the back and up and out.

Yes, somewhat like the Vigilant.

 
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dlj
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Post by dlj » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 11:57 pm

Ultralume wrote:
Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 11:09 pm
I have a few questions about antique stove types and terminology.
Oak Style Stove: Is an oak style stove simply a barrel type wood or coal stove that is direct draft? Where does that name come from?
Let me try to answer line by line...
Ultralume wrote:
Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 11:09 pm
Magazine: Is that another name for a hopper or does the name imply another function? Is the magazine a hopper that pre heats coal to emit gases and burn the gases by recirculating them through the fire?
A magazine and hopper have similar functions. The magazine typically is located inside the stove, suspended above the fire, and allows for preheating. It typically has limited coat storage. At hopper may also be inside a stove, but more often it is not. The hopper will often be able to be filled without opening the fire chamber. Hoppers are more often found on stoves with feed mechanisms. I've not heard hoppers called magazine, but I have heard magazines called hoppers. Burning the gases through recirculating is more of a stove design than a hopper or magazine design.
Ultralume wrote:
Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 11:09 pm
Suspended pot: Stoves in which the burn pot is not in direct contact with the stove body to allow for higher combustion temps?
Yes this is pretty much right. I'm not convinced the suspended pot stoves actually achieve higher combustion temperatures, but likely do have more consistent burn temperatures across the burning coal. (This may initiate some discussion...)
Ultralume wrote:
Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 11:09 pm
Base burner: Is this a stove that simply redirects flue gases down the stove and back up to extract more heat from the fire similar to what a Vermont Castings Vigilant coal stove does, or is it more complicated process involving the collection of gases produced by preheated coals in the “magazine” to be circulated past the burn pot for combustion resulting in greater heat output?
Base burners have a valve that can direct the exhaust gases to travel down into the base of the stove below the ash pan typically, allowing the heat in the flue gases to be better captured. Having a magazine or not is a different aspect. My baseburner has a magazine, but I can also take it out and still run it perfectly fine without the magazine.
Ultralume wrote:
Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 11:09 pm
Seems like the antique stoves are interesting. I’d certainly would like to get one eventually but don’t know about the particulars of operation and what to look for..
Some of the antique stoves are both beautiful and quite efficient. There are a number of designs. Some fairly complicated to run, some pretty simple. Sometimes the complications don't really add much to the functioning of the stove, some aspects do...

Hope this helps some...

dj

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 8:52 am

The guys have very well covered questions. If you want to learn more about antique stoves, you can use the search feature in the upper right corner. All those questions of yours have been well covered in this section, in posts with lots of pictures that show what the guys described.

I'll add,......

Direct or indirect draft is how the exhaust exits the stove.

In an Oak type, the exhaust goes directly from the firebed to the exit collar of the barrel that the stove pipe attaches to. Some Oak stoves have the option of a "back pipe". That is a pipe outside the stove body that is added to the barrel's exit collar that is divided in half lengthwise with a baffle and hand-controlled damper. By closing the damper, the exhaust is sent down one half of the pipe, around the end of the baffle and back up the other half of the pipe to exit into the stove pipe. That increases the heat extracting surface area before the exhaust gets to the chimney. The back pipe rests on an extension casting of the stove base, but it is not open to the bottom area of the stove like a base burner would be.

In indirect draft, a damper is moved by a lever to change the exhaust path so it travels through flues inside the stove, thus lengthening the path and increasing the area of the stove's surface that can extract and radiate heat before the exhaust gets to the exit collar. Plus, that longer internal exhaust path also adds some flow resistance to help slow the speed of the exhaust, thus giving more time for heat exchange. Base heaters, base burners, suspended pot stoves, and kitchen ranges, have this feature.

In base heaters, base burners, and suspended pot stoves, using an additional damper, you have the choice of making the exhaust either direct, or indirect. The stove is started and refueled in direct draft mode. Otherwise, it's kept in indirect draft for added heating efficiency.

Paul


 
Ultralume
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Post by Ultralume » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 9:39 am

Thank you all for the explanations. Very helpful indeed. I've never seen antique stoves in operation other than a video and pictures. I can only make analogy to something modern... Godin stove is similar to antique Oak in operation including the rear manifold concept, Vigilant has recirculation similar to base burner. I'll keep an eye out for rebuilt antique stoves. I particularly liked sir William's Glenwood..

 
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Post by Paned » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 9:56 am

Here are some pictures of the Acorn Alert baseburner. You can see how the magazine preheats the coal and feeds the fire. Brilliant design.

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Ultralume
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Post by Ultralume » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 1:59 pm

Absolutely beautiful stove. I love the big windows that let you see the fire well.

Perhaps a stupid question about the coal magazine. The obvious function would be to both extend the burn time of the stove and perhaps minimize the stove cooling off when adding coal. Doesn’t the magazine eventually get in the way when it’s time to do a little more than shaking ashes down, as in breaking up clinkers and big ash blobs that form over time?

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 4:46 pm

Ultralume wrote:
Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 1:59 pm
Absolutely beautiful stove. I love the big windows that let you see the fire well.
rom the
Perhaps a stupid question about the coal magazine. The obvious function would be to both extend the burn time of the stove and perhaps minimize the stove cooling off when adding coal. Doesn’t the magazine eventually get in the way when it’s time to do a little more than shaking ashes down, as in breaking up clinkers and big ash blobs that form over time?
Most mags are removable by lifting them out the top of the stove through the mag's loading cover. But to remove clinkers that the grates couldn't clear, once the firebed burns down, most mags have plenty of clearance to reach in and lift any big chunks out.

The mags have to have a bottom edge that is high enough above the firebed to allow coal to roll down hill to the outer edge of the firebed to keep the whole firebed filled. That takes about a 45 degree slope from the mag's bottom edge down to the outer edge of the firebed.

Paul


 
Ultralume
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Post by Ultralume » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 5:26 pm

They thought of everything back then.

 
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dlj
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Post by dlj » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 11:19 pm

Ultralume wrote:
Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 1:59 pm
Absolutely beautiful stove. I love the big windows that let you see the fire well.

Perhaps a stupid question about the coal magazine. The obvious function would be to both extend the burn time of the stove and perhaps minimize the stove cooling off when adding coal. Doesn’t the magazine eventually get in the way when it’s time to do a little more than shaking ashes down, as in breaking up clinkers and big ash blobs that form over time?
I haven't actually found the magazine to extend the burn time as much as I was hoping it would, but it does work to keep the stove running more consistently.

dj

 
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Sunny Boy
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Dec. 06, 2021 10:49 am

dlj wrote:
Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 11:19 pm
I haven't actually found the magazine to extend the burn time as much as I was hoping it would, but it does work to keep the stove running more consistently.

dj
Yes, it would be nice if the mag extended the burn times, but ash accumulation and the resulting heat output drop-off becomes the time - limiting factor.

But what a mag in my Glenwood #6 does do is make dealing with ash and refueling go a lot faster than without it. No more having to take the time to build the firebed back up in layers to avoid puffbacks.

At the heat output I run the #6 at, 12 hours is about the limit of its constant heat output. Then the heat output starts to drop from ash accumulation. Coincidently, by then, the 25 pounds of nut coal that the mag holds are used up down to the bottom of the mag at the top of the firebed mound.

So, every 12 hours I shake down the ash, refill the mag, close the cover, reset the dampers, and it's done for another 12 hours. For just the morning ash shake and refueling, that takes me about five minutes including bringing up buckets of coal from the basement bin. At night, emptying the ash pan adds less than five minutes more to that.

Having run this base heater without, and then the last few seasons with a mag, I'll keep the mag for its timesaving convenance. :yes:

Paul

 
Ultralume
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Post by Ultralume » Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 9:47 pm

Paul, it's interesting how the 25 pounds of nut coal in the magazine feeds the fire and leaves the magazine empty after 12 hours. The unburnt coal fills the burn pot by pushing down on the burning coal presumably without shaking down until after 12 hours when the magazine is empty. It's as if the amount of fuel (burn time) in the magazine matches the constant temperature burn rate limit of ash build up. Interesting correlation...

 
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Sunny Boy
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 10:15 pm

Ultralume wrote:
Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 9:47 pm
Paul, it's interesting how the 25 pounds of nut coal in the magazine feeds the fire and leaves the magazine empty after 12 hours. The unburnt coal fills the burn pot by pushing down on the burning coal presumably without shaking down until after 12 hours when the magazine is empty. It's as if the amount of fuel (burn time) in the magazine matches the constant temperature burn rate limit of ash build up. Interesting correlation...
Yes, no shaking needed until it's time to refill the mag. And the mag capacity is sized to correspond to a 12-hour tending cycle, dictated by when the ash buildup starts to reduce heat output.

BTW, Glenwood had the same type of magazine for the bigger #8 base heater, and their Oak stoves, too

These stoves were built at the height of the coal parlor stove era, after decades of development and refinement.

Paul

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