Umco 21 Pot Belly Stove

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George D
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Umco 212 Pot Belly

Post by George D » Sun. Nov. 07, 2021 11:34 am

Hi everyone, I purchased this stove a little while ago, and I'm getting ready to install it soon. I just had some questions on the clearances. I realize 36" to any combustible wall is code, but can I reduce the distance if I use 24 gauge sheet metal on 1" spacers? Also, If I use black stove pipe to the ceiling, can the distance be reduced with the addition of heat shields around the pipe? I'm trying to be around 12" from the wall, and about the same on the stove pipe. Thanks, George

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franco b
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Post by franco b » Sun. Nov. 07, 2021 12:27 pm

Using heat shields you can reduce clearance by about half or a little more. In use if wall gets too hot you can always add a freestanding barrier between stove and wall similar to how a fireplace screen stands
That type of stove though is rarely airtight so tends to run very hot.

Your first effort should be to make the stove airtight so you can control it.

Close a dollar bill at various spots around the ash door to see if it grips the bill. Add stick on flat gasket where needed, or run a bead of high temp silicon around the door flange and close on a sheet of way paper to dry. Shine a light through the air shutter to detect leaks. The upper door you can leave alone.

The stove pipe can be shielded by cutting in half lengthwise a section of smoke pipe and attach using screws long enough to stand off.

 
George D
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Post by George D » Mon. Nov. 08, 2021 8:40 am

Thank you franco. I did check the ash door, it's not very tight fitting. I need to gasket it like you said. I'm going to install the stove with heat shields to get the clearances closer to the wall. I'll post photo's when I get it up and running.

 
George D
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Post by George D » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 11:39 am

I finally got the stove installed. Damper is open full, and I'm getting a lot of smoke coming from the seams of the stove.

I attached some photos. The stove had no gaskets originally, should I take this apart and reseal everything?

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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 11:53 am

G, ya shoulda listened to franco b back on Nov. 7. But to answer your question--YEP~~~ :)

 
George D
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Post by George D » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 8:33 am

I had every intention of sealing up the ash pan door.. I just wanted to make sure everything was ok with the new chimney pipe, no leaks...etc. I have another problem I need to address....the huge slot by the shaker grate handle. I'm thinking just closing it off with rope gasket...it's the only way I can figure out for now.

I don't understand why the stove wasn't originally sealed, maybe because these were never designed to be used in a home, they didn't feel the need? Regardless, I need to take the entire stove apart, re-seal all the joints, and line the pot with refractory cement.

The photos attached is the stove burning anthracite coal, not filled nowhere near capacity, just the lower part of the pot, damper fully closed, and it got this hot. I'm glad I followed Sunny Boy's advice and installed the damper, it was the only thing that allowed me to control the draft.

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franco b
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Post by franco b » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 8:42 am

Usually there is a metal piece surrounding the shaker handle that seals the opening. It slides back and forth with the handle.


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 9:23 am

Good advice for ALL shaker handle holes/slots--I had to use big washers on my 50-93--thanx Scott!!! :) Really helped in controlling burn.

 
George D
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Post by George D » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 9:49 am

franco b wrote:
Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 8:42 am
Usually there is a metal piece surrounding the shaker handle that seals the opening. It slides back and forth with the handle.
Thanks for the heads up...I didn't know I was missing a part. I'll have to fab one up.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 10:26 am

Yes, as Franco said, you need the sliding cover plate that goes on the shaker handle shaft to reduce that big primary air leak. Then the ash door sliding damper will be able to control the fire.

The plate should be at least 1/8 inch thick steel, and wide enough to overlap the stove base opening top and bottom, plus be long enough left and right to still cover the opening as the handle is moved fully to each side.

You can also slow a too-hot fire by adding smaller sizes of coal to increase resistance to primary air flow up though the firebed. Also, opening the secondary air damper in the loading door will help cool and lessen the draft strength thus reducing the primary air draft strength.

BTW, it is common for potbelly stove firepots to "glow" somewhat. Not having a firebrick liner, like many other types of coal stoves, the pot gets hotter. However, being round, they can expand and contract easily. And it doesn't seem to bother them if they didn't already develop any stress cracks early on in their life.

Paul

 
George D
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Post by George D » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 11:06 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 10:26 am
Yes, as Franco said, you need the sliding cover plate that goes on the shaker handle shaft to reduce that big primary air leak. Then the ash door sliding damper will be able to control the fire.
I think I'm going to attach the piece to the stove, it'll be much simpler than figuring out a way to attach it to the shaker grate handle.
Sunny Boy wrote:
Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 10:26 am
You can also slow a too-hot fire by adding smaller sizes of coal to increase resistance to primary air flow up though the firebed. Also, opening the secondary air damper in the loading door will help cool and lessen the draft strength thus reducing the primary air draft strength.
Thanks for the advice, I never knew that spinner vent could help with over firing.
Sunny Boy wrote:
Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 10:26 am
BTW, it is common for potbelly stove firepots to "glow" somewhat. Not having a firebrick liner, like many other types of coal stoves, the pot gets hotter. However, being round, they can expand and contract easily. And it doesn't seem to bother them if they didn't already develop any stress cracks early on in their life.
That was downright scary... I never seen cast iron turn this shade of red before. A lot of folks say this is normal like you said yourself, but it just seemed on a verge of a meltdown.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 12:16 pm

Turning red, don't you dread. ;)
Turning yellow, be a scared fellow ! :o

Cast iron starts to turn visible red at about 1000 F. It doesn't melt until twice that temperature when it turns white hot.

Paul

 
George D
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Umco 212 Pot Belly

Post by George D » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 1:28 pm

So, I had this little stove at a thousand degrees or a bit more? :baby: I never knew coal burned that hot!

 
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Post by gardener » Tue. Dec. 21, 2021 12:47 pm

George D wrote:
Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 1:28 pm
So, I had this little stove at a thousand degrees or a bit more? :baby: I never knew coal burned that hot!
On my UMCO 28, the first time I burned some coal in it, I hadn't installed the manual pipe damper yet. The little amount of coal I put in I did not expect it to heat up so fast, but it quickly started glowing. My handheld infrared thermometer maximum measurement was 1150 F ? and I could see the value climb and then hover at that number, so I knew it had exceeded it.

I bought another handheld infrared thermometer that could measure up into the 3000+ F. One day I got the stove going and had the MPD open and got distracted, when I remembered I ran down and closed all the controls and MPD, it was glowing and still getting hotter, measured 1240 F at its hottest. Assuming your camera settings the same, around your grate handle missing slide, yours seems to have more glow than mine had, so maybe yours got up to high 1200s F :baby:

 
George D
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Umco 212 Pot Belly

Post by George D » Tue. Dec. 21, 2021 6:59 pm

This is a Jotel wood burning stove I purchased about 15 years ago. I never installed a damper, and repeatedly( and unknowingly) overfired it to the point where I got two large cracks in the top, and distorted the sides. The side loading door doesn't open anymore.

Flue temperatures at times exceeded 600F..dont know what the temperature of the stove was, but I'm sure it was up there. Basically, I just trashed as stove that probably cost around $1,000-$1,200 because of my ignorance.

I'm totally getting it now that these old style stoves are not just bought to be installed and used immediately...they need some work to make them airtight to perform in some kind of satisfactory way.

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