Building a coal magazine

 
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Post by jibs1723 » Thu. Nov. 21, 2019 1:01 pm

Hi all,

I've been struggling with burn times on my wedgewood circulating heater no14 and was thinking about trying to put a coal magazine in it to extend the burn times. I'm Currently having a hard time getting much more than 8hrs and I really need to be in the 10-12 range due to work schedule. Has anyone ever built one or have any constraints that I should be focusing on? Height of bottom of magazine about top of firebed, min depth of magazine, etc? I know the basics of how they work, but with a shallow pot like my stove has will they work?

Thanks!


 
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Post by D.lapan » Thu. Nov. 21, 2019 1:25 pm

Just to play with I made one out of 7” stove pipe to fit my number 8 glenwood last year, I expected it to burn on at the bottom in no time but come spring it was still fine, I drilled half in holes at the top so the coal inside could gas off and just simply flanged the top, The stove pipe material was thin enough to sit under the top plate

 
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Post by franco b » Thu. Nov. 21, 2019 1:46 pm

A magazine does not extend burn time very much because the burning coal underneath it first has to collapse in order to make room for coal to drop from the magazine. It does this when you shake down the ash, but very little in between.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Nov. 21, 2019 3:05 pm

The level will drop, but the shallower the firebed, the less change you'll get in firebed height. And the mag can only feed out over the firebed at about a 45 degree angle. So if you have a wide firebed and not much height inside the stove above the firebed, a mag won't do much to extend burn times.

My GW #6 averages about a 12 inch deep firebed and holds 50pounds of nut coal.

The magazine is a copy of an original Glenwood mag. 19 inches tall, by about 6 inch diameter. It holds about 25 pounds of nut coal. I top it off at night before bed. By 12 hours later the magazine is almost empty, but the firebed is still full.

However, ash buildup has slowed the fire down. So, the ash became the real burn time limiting factor.

If I stick to that 12 hour time for tending and not let the firebed burn down well below the magazine and have too much ash build up, the magazine does make refueling and shaking ash take much less time. As long as it takes to, 1.fill the mag. 2. push down the bridged coal around the edge of the firepot. 3. shake ashes. 4. top of the mag. 5 reset the dampers. As fast as I can do that is all it takes. No waiting in between to build up layers of coal that were put onto a firebed.

To figure how high off the firebed the bottom of the mag should be, measure up at an angle from the outer top edge of the fire pot to the magazine. That's where the magazine bottom edge needs to end to have coal roll out to feed fresh coal out over most of the firebed.

Paul

 
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Post by jibs1723 » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 12:52 pm

This is exactly what I was looking for! I don't know any of the dimensions of the stove off the top of my head, but there is a decent amount of height above the firebed so I may be in luck. I'll do some measuring tonight and see what I come up with. Does anyone have an pics of the fire with a full magazine of coal? I haven't been able to find any good pics to look at that will help me with figuring out what is possible.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 1:54 pm

Here's pix of my GW#6 about 14 hours after filling the magazine and setting it up for a warm (40 F) last night. The mag is empty but the firebed is still full. If it were colder last night the level would be lower if I didn't shake ash and refill the mag at about 12 hours.

BTW, the stove is right outside the door to my office, while working there I often hear the coal scraping inside the mag as it moves down to replace firebed coal that has burned.

The pix don't show it well, but the bottom outer edge of the mag is about 45 degrees up from the top edge of the firepot bricks. That's about the minimum angle that coal will roll down and cover the firebed when it spills out the bottom of the mag.

Paul

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Post by KingCoal » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 2:57 pm

another factor that the originators had figured out related to this is the ratio of the dia. of the mag in relationship to the dia of the top of the fire pot.

I think this is some of the basis for the 45* slope working in stoves. if the mag. is much wider it will have to be lower over the fire bed and / or the load door threshold, if narrower it would have to be higher up in the barrel to spill coal over the same area

when you look closely at these stoves you will find pretty much all of features are based on ratios in balance through out.

BTW, did I miss a previous request for pics of your stove ?


 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 3:27 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 2:57 pm
another factor that the originators had figured out related to this is the ratio of the dia. of the mag in relationship to the dia of the top of the fire pot.

I think this is some of the basis for the 45* slope working in stoves. if the mag. is much wider it will have to be lower over the fire bed and / or the load door threshold, if narrower it would have to be higher up in the barrel to spill coal over the same area

when you look closely at these stoves you will find pretty much all of features are based on ratios in balance through out.

BTW, did I miss a previous request for pics of your stove ?
Steve,
That's why I said 45 degrees rather than a measurement from the bottom of the mag to a line equal to the top of the firepot.

My mag tests, way back before the run was mag of GW mags, I found that coal pouring out the bottom of a pipe would only roll down to form about a 45 degree "hill". Move the mag bottom close to the firebed and with a shallower angle than 45 degrees the coal won't spread out to the edges of the firebed. Move the mag bottom higher to form a steeper angle than 45 degrees and the coal starts to overflow the firepot up onto the barrel.

That's also why the same GW #6 mag is used in the wider, taller #8 and Modern Oak 118. They are proportionality larger, therefore the 45 degree angle from mag edge to pot edge is still maintained.

If my mag was wider, like some of the mica base burner mags, It could extend lower and it would hold more coal. But at 6 inch diameter that's all that will fit through the top cover opening.

Jibs asked for pix in his post right above my last.

Paul

 
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Post by KingCoal » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 4:27 pm

yes but I was asking about pics of Jib's stove to help comprehend what he is working with.

thanks,
steve

 
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Post by mntbugy » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 6:43 pm

Just measured a couple stoves.

Mag height from top of pot.
Is 3-4 inch.
10 inch pot, got 5 inch ID mag.
12 pot, 6 inch mag.
14 pot, 7 inch mag.
15 pot, 8 inch mag
16 pot, 9 inch mag
17 pot, 10 inch mag.
And so on......

 
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Post by jibs1723 » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 7:41 pm

Here's some pictures. I've also attached a drawing based on the dimensions people suggested. It looks like if I go with the 45 degree angle for the coal to drop 3" above the fire bed I end up with a magazine 9" tall and 6" in diameter. If its 4" above the diameter is only around 4". Seems too small to me. Based on some fudged math (ignoring taper in the magazine and fire pot) the volume of the magazine would be approx 252 in3. The firepot is around 678 in3. Based on that it seems like i will have about ~35% of the total volume stored in the magazine. That seems like if even most of it feeds would get me the extra few hours I'm looking for. Anyone see any issues in my train of thought? Next question, are the lids to the magazines gasketed, and are there holes at the top within the stove to allow the coal to off gas? I will need to cut a hole in the top of the stove to do this and am thinking about the best way to build a lid/attach the magazine. Don't worry, its already cracked from someone else grossly overfiring it so I'm not worried about cutting into it.

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Post by KingCoal » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 8:57 pm

Can you show us any more of the top of the stove both outside and in ?

 
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Post by jibs1723 » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 9:37 pm

Here you go. Outside top and inside

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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 10:53 pm

jibs1723 wrote:
Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Here's some pictures. I've also attached a drawing based on the dimensions people suggested. It looks like if I go with the 45 degree angle for the coal to drop 3" above the fire bed I end up with a magazine 9" tall and 6" in diameter. If its 4" above the diameter is only around 4". Seems too small to me. Based on some fudged math (ignoring taper in the magazine and fire pot) the volume of the magazine would be approx 252 in3. The firepot is around 678 in3. Based on that it seems like i will have about ~35% of the total volume stored in the magazine. That seems like if even most of it feeds would get me the extra few hours I'm looking for. Anyone see any issues in my train of thought? Next question, are the lids to the magazines gasketed, and are there holes at the top within the stove to allow the coal to off gas? I will need to cut a hole in the top of the stove to do this and am thinking about the best way to build a lid/attach the magazine. Don't worry, its already cracked from someone else grossly overfiring it so I'm not worried about cutting into it.
The magazine round cover (lid) on the Glenwoods are not gasketed. They have a beveled edge that sits down into a beveled recess in the stove top. The beveled edge gives a good seal without need of a gasket.

The magazine has a flanged top edge that it hangs from in a slightly smaller diameter recess under the round cover.

First picture is the GW#6 magazine.

Second pic is the stove top without the magazine in place and the round cover swung off to the side - like you would move it when loading the mag (or loading long pieces of firewood).

Third is the stove top with the mag hanging by it's flanged edge in place.

For a lid, you can buy kitchen stove cast iron round covers in various diameters on eBay. The 8 inch range of sizes are very common. Next most common is in the 7 inch range. You may be able to figure out how to use one. Then all you need is the round cover lifting handle that fits the cover's socket. They are also common on eBay.

One way to make a drop-in magazine lid is,.... Have a piece of 1/4 inch plate steel cut with a hole larger than the stove top opening. It should be a close fit that the round cover fits into. Lay the plate on the stove top and seal it to the stove top with refractory sealer.

Paul

Attachments

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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Nov. 22, 2019 11:18 pm

Found my notes of measuring the mag to firebed gap. The #6 has a 15-1/2 inch firepot at the top inside edge. With one inch thick brick lining it's 13-1/2 inch ID.

From a horizontal line across the top of the lining it's 3-1/2 inches to the bottom edge of the magazine. Mag bottom is 6 inch diameter. Glenwood had it so that it's about a 45 degree angle from mag edge to firepot lining edge.

Paul


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