Bi metallic primary / Barometric damper

 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 4:31 pm

Uh oh ....

I’m gonna ask!

Can someone explain (with hard physics) why a stove with a bi metallic thermostat controlled primary, negates the need for a barometric exhaust damper?

I don’t believe that they are not beneficial when used together.

Remember.... physics, not feelings!

Seriously.


 
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Post by freetown fred » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 4:46 pm

Just because they do--AND-- that's not feelings, that's experience. :) KISS--how's that for physics???

 
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Post by inline » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:00 pm

I’m running a baro on my Keystoker HFH with only a bimetallic. Easily the best stove I’ve ever run. Maintenance is less than 10 min a day. Nothing scientific but I’m impressed by the ease of use. Using 40lbs a day. 3000 sq ft Victorian that eats propane like it’s a job.

 
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:10 pm

:baby:

Seriously folks?

Just because they do what, Fred? 😜

You’ve run a stove with both “attached” at the same time?
Last edited by scalabro on Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:17 pm

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work together. One is subject to stove temp, and the other is subject to gas pressure drop. Two different things that can both effect the stove's performance.

And, some people don't ever use an MPD with a wood stove. Doesn't mean an MPD couldn't help. ;)

Paul

 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:27 pm

Lots of folks here believe the two together are unnecessary and in combination will be of no benefit.

I’d like to know the science behind their belief.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Gotta love Fred’s straightforwardness. Don’t have to guess where he stands. Lol! I totally respect that...and he may be right.

I’m going to hook up my stove and keep it simple. Just going to put in an mpd just in case...and because I am hoping to use the same pipe set-up for my wood stove if I ever decide to put it back into play for awhile. Lots of minor work to do to that stove though before I use it again.

That said, I am not a furnace man/guru, nor do I know very much about a barometer, but I have to admit I am thinking along similar lines as Scalabro.

I may not be able to back any of it up scientifically, but my gut has a hard time with a bi-metallic responding to pressure changes in the chimney as fast as a barometer. My reason, or my logic...is my furnace barometer. If I can here that baro “tink” when the furnace is off and with a gust of wind blowing across or down my chimney, then that baro can certainly similarly respond to a pressure change when the furnace unit is running, though it’s likely less effected because there is some warm air leaving the chimney.

The baro responds to air pressure as best I can tell...simple wind will move it.

In my mind a bimetallic opens and closes based on a temperature change. Temperature change is generally fairly slow. That temperature change no matter how big or small happens after the pressure change...which the baro has already compensated for much faster than a spring responds to a temperature change. This would be a good question to ask Dean at Hitzer....and I know we’re not specifically talking about Hitzer’s, but bi-metallic use in general and in conjunction with a baro.

I could be totally wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last.
Last edited by Hoytman on Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.


 
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Post by freetown fred » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:08 pm

I have, not a lick of difference. Removed baro--just more clutter. :) I know this is no where near the complicated response you're lookin for--but like I said--it comes from experience.
scalabro wrote:
Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 5:10 pm
:baby:

Seriously folks?

Just because they do what, Fred? 😜

You’ve run a stove with both “attached” at the same time?

 
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:13 pm

Hmmm.... ok. Out of respect to you Fred (cause you know I love ya!) I’ll give a +1 for the naysayers!

Still there is no science in your answer 🤣

Next please, with tech!

 
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:18 pm

freetown fred wrote:
Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:08 pm
I have, not a lick of difference. Removed baro--just more clutter. :) I know this is no where near the complicated response you're lookin for--but like I said--it comes from experience.
Fred, I can’t explain why my wife still loves me, but my experience says she does. Lol! I must be doing something right. 🤪Sometimes we can’t fully explain our experience or the science behind something. At least I can’t.

I give Scalabro credit for thinking about this though because it’s been on my mind as well. Nothing wrong with trying to figure it out and I too am interested in the why...or the science.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:27 pm

I wonder what type of scientific facts the caveman had upon the discovery of fire--just experience--or just a fluke I'm thinkin that works--same as your wife lovin ya H. :)
Last edited by freetown fred on Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 6:37 pm

Stay focused children 😔

 
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Post by freetown fred » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 7:21 pm

LOL--INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

 
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Post by franco b » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 7:31 pm

Hoytman explained it very well. The science is oxidation which needs air to function. Both a baro and a bimetallic or expanding fluid types control the air, and in turn the rate of burning or oxidation.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Nov. 15, 2019 7:34 pm

Here’s something I just learned from a little reading. Maybe my hillbilly logic is off, but I’m not so certain of that just yet.

Well give me a minute... the bi-metallic is a heat engine using two dissimilar metals that heat at different rates.

In the case of the coil the inner parts of the coil are somewhat protected from the temperature and may not expand as fast as the outermost parts of the coil. I may not understand that correctly, but that’s what I got out of it.

Here’s a link ... with a short visual ...that makes it appear the Bi-metal May react faster than I thought.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimetallic_strip


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