Saving history...one antique stove at a time

Not enough sag there to be an issue. The two center bars are held with the clamp and bolt.

The frame supports are in between bars, so, if the sag has dropped the center between supports, did it cantilever and raise the outer saddles closer to the ash drawer roof that holds them in place ?

We now know the cog teeth are skipping because, due to saddle wear the bars can move enough off center to get out of time. So all that is because of wear in the saddles, not because the frame has some warping downward in the middle.

And don't forget that part of the wear problem is that the bars can move up away from each other, not just in a horizontal plane. By sleeving the axles you reduce bar travel 360 degrees.

I use a lot of 16 gauge mild sheet metal to make repairs and patches for the old cars. It just happens to be 1/16 inch thick. You might be able to get some scraps from a sheet metal shop, or auto crusher/metal recycling center. As long as it's "cold rolled" mild steel,16 gauge forms very nicely with hand tools - especially with a piece as small as you'll need. Hot-roll steel sheet metal tends to have hard spots that make forming it much tougher.

The sheet metal thickness is how much it will move each bar back towards it's mating bar. Think how much closer the bars would be to each other if you stuck a 1/16 between the bars and the outer part of it's saddle. Because you doing that to each axle, that becomes 1/8 inch deeper mesh of the cog teeth.

First cut it to the distance from axle cog seat shoulder to the first tooth. Then use a piece of paper wrapped around the axle to get the circumference length. Cut the sheet metal about a 1/4 inch longer than that circumference length so you have a bit of excess to trim off later to get a good butt joint to weld.

Hold it to the axle by clamping it with vice grips or the jaws of a bench vice. Then start bending it around the axle.

If you don't have a flat-faced bodyshop smoothing hammer, you can "slap hammer" it by using a piece of 2x4 as a hammer. That way it will stay flatter, rather than have a lot of dents and lumps from a hammer head.

There will be a slight amount of "spring back" that will keep the sheet metal from forming tightly to the axle. Not a problem because you can use clamps to tighten it when the seam is welded.

Paul

PS. Apologies to Joe for taking his TOTP spot.

Hmmm, is that a design trait ? just enough sag to allow the center grate bar cover bracket to fit under the pot while the outer's are right up against not needing any brackets ?

curious minds...........

KingCoal wrote: ↑

Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 5:32 pm

Hmmm, is that a design trait ? just enough sag to allow the center grate bar cover bracket to fit under the pot while the outer's are right up against not needing any brackets ?

curious minds...........

Maybe had large pieces of wood dropped in through the lid in it's past, or something got jammed under there while it was all very hot and someone tried to unjam it with gorilla tactics ?????

The grate bars were abused and warped on my 118, but the frame is straight on all four sides and it has longer spans than the 116.

Paul

You guys continue to amaze me with your unmatched knowledge. I used 3/4” EMT to make shims for the grate bars and they fit damn near perfect. I cut them to length then cut them long ways with a hacksaw. I pryed them open, popped them on the grate bars then pinched them tight. The shims are slightly on the large side causing the grate bars not to fully sit in the rack. The one middle grate that’s warped is a bit tight to turn now with it shimmed up, but not impossible. I assembled everything and all the cogs mesh nice now and the grates turn good too. I may trim the shims with my dremel to get a tighter fit. Hopefully that’ll help the grate bars sit tighter in the rack. The split photo is a set of grates with shims and a set of grates without shims. Big difference!

A big thank you for the great ideas!!!

Your welcome, and good job ! The cog mesh looks as it should, now

Paul

I ran into a pickle installing the grate assembly. It did not fit! I couldn’t figure out where it was binding. Then I realized the outer grate shims were too thick preventing the rack from being lifted into place. I removed the shims just on the outer grate bars and it fit like a glove. That’s some tight clearances! I think I can get away with just the shims on the inner grate bars. The cogs are still fairly tight. The only thing is there was some room between the rear grate bracket and grate bars, now the shims are preventing the bracket from sitting flush and is quite tight. I had to keep it a bit loose and double nut it, I don’t want it to crack from being too tight.

Got it fixed and lit back up just in time..39 degrees and rain/sleet mix. Just nasty here!!

Ok, so you now have a better idea of what thickness to use sleeve the axles. Something thinner that conduit wall thickness, or tighten up the conduit if it's a lose fit.

We're at 30F and getting snow now. Our CNY weather never cares what the calendar says. I could use some of that glo-bull warmer they keep promising.

Paul

Although I love this stove I find the triangular grates a bit finicky to use. They now mesh well but still get a bit jammed up. Not at first, with an ash bed they work well. Once that ash bed is cleared (which doesn’t take much) and the fresh coal drops onto the grates they lock up fairly quick. It may just take some getting used too! On a plus...the stove was idled way down yesterday. I could’ve swore it went out, not a trace of glowing coal to be found. I opened up the primaries last night to revive the fire and it sprung right back. This stove can idle LOW!!!

tcalo wrote: ↑

Sun. Apr. 07, 2019 8:46 am

Although I love this stove I find the triangular grates a bit finicky to use. They now mesh well but still get a bit jammed up. Not at first, with an ash bed they work well. Once that ash bed is cleared (which doesn’t take much) and the fresh coal drops onto the grates they lock up fairly quick. It may just take some getting used too! On a plus...the stove was idled way down yesterday. I could’ve swore it went out, not a trace of glowing coal to be found. I opened up the primaries last night to revive the fire and it sprung right back. This stove can idle LOW!!!

That's shows you your shaking them too much. It's also showing you how easy it is to clear ash with them when your used to having to do a lot more violent shaking using other types of grates.

With that big firepot, you don't need to clear 100% of the ash to get a long burn time. Stop when you just start to feel some resistance as the thicker mix of ash and live coals gets close to the grates. Also, shorten up the shaker handle stoke as you progress with clearing ash. It will still drop ash, but live and unburned coal can't easily get caught between the teeth when they don't move past a certain point.

With a nighttime deep bed of ashes, start shaking with moving the handle about 45 degrees each way for the first couple of shakes. Then progressively shorten the travel with each couple of shakes until your only shaking the slop in the handle fit, and the grate axle/saddle fit. More like just "rattling" the grates instead of turning them.

For a shallower bed of ashes from a shorter burn time, just "rattle" the grates is all they usually need.

And if you do happen to shake so much ash that live or unburned coal gets caught in the grates, don't worry about it and try to fight it free. It won't hurt the triangular grates to have the firebed right on them now and then, because with 2/3 of their surfaces sticking way down into the incoming air, they can take higher temps than flatter grate designs. Fighting to unjam it will just make it worse and you'll be wasting coal by dumping live coals into the ash pan. Walk away and just let it burn the jam to ash. Come back in an hour or two and finish lining up the grate bars.

Less is more !

Paul

Thanks Paul

Facebook market place in Attleboro ma has a 116 with back pipe piece and maybe a good pot for $30
Might be worth the road trip

D.lapan wrote: ↑

Sun. Apr. 07, 2019 3:44 pm

Facebook market place in Attleboro ma has a 116 with back pipe piece and maybe a good pot for $30
Might be worth the road trip

Nice...do you have a link?

tcalo wrote: ↑

Sun. Apr. 07, 2019 3:47 pm

Nice...do you have a link?

I can’t seem to get it to copy and paste

D.lapan wrote: ↑

Mon. Apr. 08, 2019 8:10 am

I can’t seem to get it to copy and paste

No problem Dana...thanks anyway. I’ll try and find it.