New to coal - with a shining gem of a base burner: McClary 114 with Piggyback Oven!

 
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nortcan
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Post by nortcan » Tue. Feb. 05, 2019 11:14 am

During the old times, houses were far from being air tight and the houses were then having lot of air entering the houses to feed the combustion in stoves. In fact it's better to have a positive air pressure in the house than a negative pressure so the chimney draft can do the job. If the chimney draft is OK and the house has a slight positive air pressure, the stove can operate easily even with cracked micas or other air leaks, but the bottom part of the stove (below the fire pot) should be as air tight as possible. In some modern houses, an air exchanger must compensate for the air combustion and from the chimney draft.


 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Tue. Feb. 05, 2019 1:04 pm

nope most of the problem with the chimney is directly related to the fact that it isn't higher than the tallest part of the roof. it doesn't have to be the tallest thing in the neighborhood just taller than anything when in ten or so feet.

do you have trees close and taller than the house ? those will also have an effect.

there is no way i'd put $1500 plus electrical installation money in the path of coal OR wood exhaust and corrosion. i'd bet that fan wouldn't make it thru the second season at best.

 
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Post by D.lapan » Tue. Feb. 05, 2019 2:03 pm

I second kingcoal, I would sooner get up there with 3 new blocks and 1 or new clay liners and a bag of mortar and try adding 2’ to it before spending that kind of money on something that the fly ash will rot off over a year or 2 time, where I am I can go and buy everything for a 30’ block chimney for about $500

 
DonKom
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Baseburners & Antiques: McClary No. 114 base burner w/ oven

Post by DonKom » Tue. Feb. 05, 2019 6:14 pm

Thanks so much for all the continued feedback! I've been doing some reading, as there are great resources online - this one was particularly helpful: http://www.chimneydoctors.com/solving-drafting-pr ... ireplaces/ - even though it's for fireplaces, much of the logic is still the same to generate draft.

And yes, they mention the chimney fans only as a last resort.

Aside from raising the height of the chimney, there were a few other interesting ideas found there. One was putting a stainless steel liner inside the chimney and then surround it by insulation, preventing the flue gasses from cooling on the way out. Another is putting a Vac-U-Stack chimney top on, which I believe was mentioned here as well, and finally chimney height.

Interesting that the percentage of draft improvement is directly related to the percentage of overall height of the chimney, so I imagine that an increase in height would only solve part of them problem.

Who knows, doing all three could give me too much draft! At least I have my chimney clean-out I could open as a barometric damper.

Also, just to discuss the corrosion on the draft inducers - at least one brand comes with a 10-year corrosion warranty, so at least there's that (though you've well talked me out of that idea).

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Feb. 05, 2019 8:06 pm

Don't mistake that info as it all applies to stoves. It's for fireplaces, which often react and draft differently than a stove.

At the other end of the living room that my GW6 base heaters is in, I've got a large fireplace on an outside chimney that backdrafts far more easily than the central chimney the GW6 is using, even though both chimneys are unlined brick and just as tall.

The fireplace opening is four feet wide and sucks in so much room air that mano draft readings are very low compared to if I used a stove in that same chimney and sealed off the stove pipe to the fireplace damper opening. Using standard length firewood is like kindling to this fireplace. I had to get a local wood cutter to cut 3 foot logs, otherwise I was throwing wood in every 15-20 minutes to keep the draft strong enough that we didn't get puff backs.

My kitchen range is on a third same-height, unlined, outside brick chimney and has no problems running all night at low mano readings that make some stove owners break out in a nervous sweat.

Adding height to a chimney means more draft control for a stove than it does for a fireplace. And a tall chimney that SAFELY drafts, won't rust out in a few years (yes, stainless liners rust out from coal ash and moisture), or stop working if the power goes out.

Paul

 
DonKom
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Baseburners & Antiques: McClary No. 114 base burner w/ oven

Post by DonKom » Wed. Feb. 06, 2019 11:53 am

Thanks Paul,

Interestingly with no fire today, I tested a positive draft through my chimney clean-out using a handheld fog machine. Still need to hook my manometer up (need new drill battery).

Here's a photo of our chimney:
IMG_20190206_113831.jpg
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Ours is on the left, our neighbour is to the right - they have a two-storey home so ours is much lower to the ground. Our neighbour also has a line of tall evergreen trees along the back line of their property, not sure if that would have any significant impact at that distance though:
IMG_20190206_113838_1.jpg
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First steps I think will be to get a Vacu-Stack installed and fill the chimney clean-out with high-temp insulation and go from there. If I were to get the chinmey lined with stainless steel, it looks like 316L steel contains Molybdenum and allows for greater corrosion resistance at lower temperatures. Manufacturers use that or 316Ti, but 316L would be the best bet if required - and the insulating pipe could extend beyond the masonry by a few feet to help as well.

 
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Post by KingCoal » Wed. Feb. 06, 2019 12:25 pm

this style of cap

https://www.famcomfg.com/product/wind-directional ... gLgmvD_BwE

is the simplest and least expensive, they last pretty long too. you can get adaptors for them to mount on your square tile liner stub.

you can get them from about $45. to hundreds depending on material from quite a few vendors some being very elaborate.

seeing your present chimney and surroundings this is where i'd start along with making sure the whole chimney and piping is well sealed.

best of luck,
steve


 
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Photog200
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Post by Photog200 » Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 1:02 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Fri. Jan. 18, 2019 6:07 pm


And your in good company. We have another pro photographer who does a lot of cooking on an antique coal range - both coal and wood. His name is Randy - screen name Photog2000.

Paul
I heard my name mentioned so I thought I would poke my nose in here to say hello. Welcome to coal burning and I will add my compliments on such a beautiful stove. I am not at all familiar with the usage of your type of stove so I will leave advise to others who are.

Randy

 
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Post by franco b » Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 10:06 pm

Step one, get the manometer installed. Buy a cheap drill from Harbor Freight if need be.

Inspect house for any leaks on the highest floor and seal.

How is the gas furnace vented and what provision for fresh air for that furnace.

Any exhaust fans or vented clothes dryers?

What is the dimension of your chimney liner?

What is smoke pipe temperature with stove in direct draft? Are you certain you are in direct draft mode?

 
DonKom
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Baseburners & Antiques: McClary No. 114 base burner w/ oven

Post by DonKom » Wed. Feb. 20, 2019 10:36 am

Randy, thanks for the warm welcome and the compliments on the stove! I can see me enjoying it as a photographic subject and I'm certain my students will enjoy it's presence in my studio as well. :)

Franco, thanks for the advice. Our chimney has a 8"x12" interior, masonry. The stove pipe might reach 200F if I nurse the stove for maximum output (shaking frequently and keeping completely topped up). This is in direct draft, I can see what happens when I pull a level on the side that opens up the pathway to base burner mode. I don't think this is hot enough.

I know these stoves were originally designed to be in the center of a room, and thereby likely to have a straight chimney, no bends. In my current installation there is a 90, a 45, and then another 90 when the stovepipe starts going vertically into the masonry chimney. I think this is a large part of the problem, but there is no way around that. Still mulling over the possibilities for increased draft and what would be both cost-effective AND controllable.

We had some furnace issues recently - just installed a new one with proper fresh air being pulled in from outside, and it wasn't draining water properly so the baseburner was running constantly for about a week. No issues! No backdraft even in high wind, this stove really runs nice when you get it hot... but it doesn't get hot enough. Not how enough to heat the house properly, anyhow... and it's not that big of a house. I just need more air running through the thing, pulled actively or passively through the chimney.

Whenever the stove is hot I have a handheld very sensitive (can detect 1ppm and updates every second) CO monitor near me, and beside my bed at night. It gives off an audible alarm at anything over 35ppm the second it gets there, and it never gets to above 5ppm - often riding at 0-2 and it's never higher around the stove than the rest of the house. Once this stove gets going, it appears to be very safe but I'm still ever vigilant.

She's cold at the moment as I plan to replace some mica windows, but I'll fire her up again in a couple days just for the enjoyment of it. Any and all thoughts to get better draft would be appreciated - while cold I'll also be installing the manometer.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Feb. 20, 2019 10:59 am

The manometer will give some actual numbers for the draft.

The 8 by 12 chimney is large. An improvement could be made to the smoke pipe by using two 45 degree adjustable elbows and sloping the pipe. Also would make it shorter. One two foot section straight up from the stove and then angle up to the chimney.

I doubt you would start a fire with wood considering the new mica, but a hot fire with charcoal and a manometer reading would be revealing.

If all else fails I would favor a chimney liner over other methods. It will last if no wet coal is burned. If you go that route, plan the installation for easy cleaning.

Normally some leaking of above fire doors is not a problem, but with so many doors it could be that too much air is bypassing the coal, leading to failure of easy starting and burn. So try to limit that as well.

 
DonKom
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Baseburners & Antiques: McClary No. 114 base burner w/ oven

Post by DonKom » Wed. Feb. 20, 2019 11:20 am

Thanks Franco,

The stovepipe is positioned as such to not obstruct the cooktop on the piggyback oven. I had contemplated a 45/45 to the mansonry chimney but it wouldn't be as functional in other regards.

When firing of the stove next I'll use a heat gun on the stovepipe to induce some initial airflow and then star things with charcoal. I should be able to provide manometer stats within a few days for you. One quick question, however: where in the stovepipe should I drill the hole? Close to the base, close to the masonry, or anywhere arbitrarily because it doesn't matter?

Since the chimney has a clean-out port (currently stuffed with insulation to prevent any possible draft), cleaning should be easy even with a liner. 316L steel would be the way to go, I've already been pricing out some kits. The coal I get is bagged and dry, so no issues there.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Feb. 20, 2019 11:41 am

Start the smoke pipe with a two foot straight section and angle it from there. It should not obstruct the cook top that way.

I would drill the hole close enough to the masonry to make the mounting of the indicator look proper. Keep it simple and easy to remove when cleaning. My kits came with a brass hose bib that a 3/8 hole just fit. A six inch or so length of automotive hose rated for 250 degrees that the manometer hose slides into completes the installation. You might use some sort of sticky or velcro to mount to the masonry. If you drill into the masonry, do it into the joint mortar and not the brick.

 
DonKom
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Baseburners & Antiques: McClary No. 114 base burner w/ oven

Post by DonKom » Wed. Feb. 20, 2019 12:02 pm

Thanks Franco, will install the manometer as you suggest.

As per the stovepipe arrangement, you can see it here. 90 degree followed by a roughly 45 (adjustable) to the masonry. The only other way to do it would be to have the entire pipe diagonal to the masonry from the stove, but that would cause obstructions.
IMG_20190220_115947.jpg
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franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Feb. 20, 2019 12:23 pm

My thought was to get some slope to the pipe by shortening the vertical section, but if not practical that is out.

Looking forward to some numbers from the manometer.

When you next fire up do a check on the doors for excessive leakage over the fire. Match or candle flame or smoking string.


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