Wehrle Dauntless 174

 
Bblake
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Post by Bblake » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 12:11 pm

Greeting All,

I'm new to this forum, and I'm here because of this cast iron stove. This Wehlre Dauntless 174 came with the house, and I was told it's a wood burner. Until this week, when someone said it's actually a coal burner... :?

I've been burning Canawick Bricks in it - low moisture, low creosote, easy to sta k and handle, etc...

The bottom definitely has a shaker grate, and there seems to be two air intakes. One at the bottom of the door with a sliding damper, the other seems to be in the ash pan door. Theres a crank that can be loosened or tightened which opens and closes an auxiliary door. I'm assuming this is for additional air at the base for air intake when burning coal.

All of that said, my first experience burning stove coal last night didn't go quite as planned.

I started a nice hot fire in a clean firebox with three Canawick Bricks. When that burned down I added a layer of stove coal, and two more blocks of Canawick. I kept up this process for about three hours until the coal level was just below the door level, and then opened the ash pan aux door about an 1/8th of an inch, and closed the door damper - the door itself doesn't seal too well, so I figured if it needed an upper draft that was probably enough. It maintained about 450° for an hour, and I went to bed - around 9:30pm.

When I woke up this morning at 5:15am, there was no fire, and the inside of the stove was 68°. There was still a lot of coal left seemingly unburned, and a lot of it had a reddish color.

Any hints on what i did incorrectly? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Brian

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D.lapan
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Post by D.lapan » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 12:15 pm

Coal requires mostly under fire air, from the ash pan area, and with will those bricks in there it maybe ashed up and choked the fire out, a lot of people use bbq charcoal to start their fires
Dana

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Welcome, Bblake.

The loading door may be leaking too much over-fire air. Unlike with wood, that will cool the hot exhaust that is needed to keep a strong draft pulling air up through the firebed.

Air is lazy and wants to take the path of least resistance. There is more resistance to flow through the firebed than leaks over the firebed. That reduction in draft through the firebed will then slow a coal fire. If too much air leaks over the firebed, it will slow the fire down until it stalls and quickly dies, leaving a classic sign of that's what happened - lots of unburned coal.

Combine that with what D.Lapan said above about the ash from the wood bricks possibly clogging the under-fire air, and it makes the draft want to draw even more from any over-fire air leaks.

Do what you can to make sure that the vast majority of air to the fire is coming up from below the firebed. And reduce how much can leak in over it. You can check for leaks and how strong they are by passing a piece of smoldering string closely along seam and door edge. You might find that the loading door is not the only leaker.

Paul

 
Bblake
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Post by Bblake » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 1:59 pm

D.lapan wrote:
Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 12:15 pm
Coal requires mostly under fire air, from the ash pan area, and with will those bricks in there it maybe ashed up and choked the fire out, a lot of people use bbq charcoal to start their fires
Dana
I may try that tonight, thanks.

 
Bblake
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Post by Bblake » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 2:07 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 1:37 pm
Welcome, Bblake.

The loading door may be leaking too much over-fire air. Unlike with wood, that will cool the hot exhaust that is needed to keep a strong draft pulling air up through the firebed.

Air is lazy and wants to take the path of least resistance. There is more resistance to flow through the firebed than leaks over the firebed. That reduction in draft through the firebed will then slow a coal fire. If too much air leaks over the firebed, it will slow the fire down until it stalls and quickly dies, leaving a classic sign of that's what happened - lots of unburned coal.

Combine that with what D.Lapan said above about the ash from the wood bricks possibly clogging the under-fire air, and it makes the draft want to draw even more from any over-fire air leaks.

Do what you can to make sure that the vast majority of air to the fire is coming up from below the firebed. And reduce how much can leak in over it. You can check for leaks and how strong they are by passing a piece of smoldering string closely along seam and door edge. You might find that the loading door is not the only leaker.

Paul
Thanks, Paul. I'm going to Tractor Supply this evening to get more coal and a rope gasket to try and seal the door some.


Brian

 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 3:03 pm

try this to start your next fire.

clear all the ash and unburned coal off of the grates and empty the ash pan.

cover the whole surface of the grates one layer of matchlight charcoal deep ( laying flat ). add another layer by putting the new ones in the intersections of the first ones to loosely cover the gaps between the lower ones.

now put 1 piece of charcoal in the very center of the whole thing and surround it with 4 or 5 others then put the same number right on top of each of those.

now fill in around the center stack and over the rest with your unburned and fresh stove coal till it's all atleast 2 pieces deep over the top of the center stack of charcoal.

open up your pipe damper, close the over fire slider in the load door and open the oval air intake on the ash door 1/2" or more. take out the ash pan, light the matchlight from under the grates, return the ash pan and close the ash door completely leaving just the oval damper open for draft.

start slowly closing the oval damper a fraction at a time to keep the stove from sounding like a rocket. when you get it down to about 1/8" you should also have strong flames coming thru the top of the whole coal bed.

at this point, fill the stove coal up to the level of the bottom of the load door ( not higher, no coal against the barrel or the inside of the door ) move the pipe damper to 45* or half shut and let it go. monitor the surface of the inner stove ( not the cabinet ) and by closing or opening the pipe damper in fractions try to hold 350- 400* on the stove body.

you may have to close the oval air damper 50% more as well depending on draft strength.

if all goes well, in the morning you should be able to open the pipe damper completely and the oval damper to about half inch and wait 5 minutes to have a briskly burning fire. shake the grates till you see the first few red embers fall into the ash pan through the oval damper, then stop and CLOSE THE ASH DOOR if it needed to be open to shake the grates, ( NEVER WALK AWAY FROM THE STOVE WITH THE ASH DOOR OPEN ) then refill the fire pot. close the load door and return the oval damper to the position it was over night. open the slider on the load door and leave it open till you see blue flames over the top of the fresh coal.

then close the slider 95% and close the pipe damper to it's former position. in an hour or so you can close the slider completely.

repeat on 12 hour schedule morning and evening and empty ashes before they are within an inch of the bottom of the grates. never let them touch the grates as this will warp and ruin them while suffocating the fire.

neat stove, good luck with it

steve
Last edited by KingCoal on Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 3:08 pm

BTW, if you don't do the silicone door sealer trick try some of the flat felt gasket for the big green egg grills from ace hardware or something similar. that may be too thick for your gaps and in that case the silicone trick is best

steve


 
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Post by D.lapan » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 3:48 pm

Keep in mind, burning coal is a art, it takes patience and practice anyone can burn wood, but don’t get frustrated there is hundreds of years of experience on this forum, keep at it and keep asking questions..
Dana

 
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Post by Bblake » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 4:10 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 3:08 pm
BTW, if you don't do the silicone door sealer trick try some of the flat felt gasket for the big green egg grills from ace hardware or something similar. that may be too thick for your gaps and in that case the silicone trick is best

steve
I'm not familiar with the silicone door sealer...

 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 5:07 pm

first off, open the load door and starting in the top left corner and working clockwise all the way around, close the door on a dollar bill. if you can pull it out that is too big of a gap and needs sealed. do this on the ash door too.

if by chance you can't pull the dollar out of anywhere, the doors are good and the issue of loosing the fire had to do with some of the following, not enough sustained draft ( pipe damper closed to far and chimney cooled off, or obstruction in chimney ) not enough under fire air from the oval damper on ash door, too much over fire air from load door slider, too many and too much ash from the compressed bricks that smothered the coal, not enough coal close enough together in the fire pot to sustain itself.

any where you can pull the dollar out is too big of a gap. you can fix this with even the cheapest 100% silicone of any color. but it must be 100% silicone.

on a cold stove use a sharp object to scribe around the doors and unto the stove body, you'll see why in a minute. now sand the sealing edges of the doors just enough to get dirt and loose stuff off, wipe with damp cloth and get completely dry. apply 1/8" bead of silicone all the way around the door edge. tape strips of wax paper to the stove body so it's in and outside of the scribed lines you just made and the door and silicone will close onto the wax paper not the stove metal. close and fully latch the doors.

now wait for the silicone to set. over night or speed it up with a hair drier, just don't be in a hurry and have to do it all over again. it will take more steps the second time because silicone won't stick to silicone.

in the end the doors won't leak and the silicone will stay put and not vaporize under 800* if the stove is 800* you have other much bigger problems. get a fire extingquisher and some C.O. detectors.

steve

 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 5:25 pm

PS your load door has an upper and lower portion both parts may need to be sealed and the surface where the lower load door closes against the upper load door may as well.

 
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Post by Bblake » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 10:38 pm

Surprisingly, the door was pretty tight. I'll work some on it this weekend, found two areas that are questionable.

Below is two hours after starting. Temps are tough to maintain right now, but, I'm hovering right around 410°, going to reduce bottom air a 1/4 turn and see what that does. Pipe damper is almost completely closed.
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Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Jan. 10, 2019 11:02 pm

If your going to rely on this for a good bit of your heat supply, a monometer - such as a Dwyer mark II - will help you see the actual draft strength and set the dampers for best running. Many of us have one hooked up to our stoves.

It's not expensive, it's easy to install, and what that can save you in coal from not wasting heat up the chimney will pay for itself within the first few of months.

It'll also help trouble shoot if you have stove or chimney draft problems.

Paul

 
KingCoal
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Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
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Post by KingCoal » Fri. Jan. 11, 2019 5:27 am

did you have the fire pot completely filled at any point ? half the coal capacity gone in 2 hours would be pretty fast and support the idea of closing the pipe damper further and using just enough bottom draft to hit and hold your target temp.

BTW, is 410* adding enough heat to the house ? haven't heard from you today but just looking at that pic of the fire if you didn't add coal at bed time i doubt it made it thru the night.

steve

 
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Post by Bblake » Fri. Jan. 11, 2019 6:17 am

Surprisingly, it did make it thru the night. I'm waking it back up now.

No, I didn't fill it completely up before i went to bed at 11pm. I used what was previously unburned over the prior two days, and the rest of the first bag.

No, 410° won't keep the whole house warm. It'll keep the kitchen and the rooms right above it warm, a pellet stove heats the other half. There's also an oil burner in the basement (which I refuse to use due to cost), and a conjoined 1979 Katahdin wood furnace. I can throw s 40 lbs pack of Canawick brick in the Katahdin and warm the house for about 3 hours. I'd burn thru 4 - 6 of these a day on really cold days.

House is 1600 sq ft, two level and a basement, farm house built in 1880.


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