Long Burn: What Type of Coal

 
NoSmoke
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Post by NoSmoke » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Sorry Mainers, the old pellet stove was just not cutting the mustard when it came to keeping the cold at bay with Maine derived pellets. It was time to import the good stuff from PA!

Today my wife and I (surely you remember Katie), installed our old Woods and Bishop Pot Bellied stove in our new Tiny House.

BUT....

It is in the basement. Our goal here is to just keep the floors warm, and not heat the whole house. Despite putting hay around the outside of the house, we are averaging temperatures down there of only 38 degrees. Obviously at 20 degrees, 38 is cold, but what would it be like when it is 20 below zero outside?

So I do not want to make a lot of trips to the basement. I want long burn times. I always thought stove coal gave me that from its large chunks, adding lots of coal, and controlling the air for fire control. But a coal burner on another forum told me there is more air holes in stove coal so it burns hotter, faster. So what do I burn, stove, nut, pea? The grates will take all three.

The stove has PLENTY of draft. It is located inside, it is 28 feet high, masonry chimney on a house on a hill.


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 4:42 pm

The depth of the fire pot would seem to dictate nut coal over pea, but you might experiment with some pea on top. Stove size would be more difficult to hold at low temps.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Yes, stove chunks are big,..... and so are the air spaces around them. As a result, you windup with less coal in the same space.

In testing to see how the Glenwood mags work I measured both nut and stove size volumes by weight. In the same space nut coal weights about 10% more. So but coal will give 10% more fuel density in the same firepot as stove coal.

And as Franco pointed out, stove coal will be tougher to get to burn slowly because those larger air spaces let it breath more easily than nut coal. Coal bed air resistance is one factor of how to control a firebed's burn rate.

I've been using both sizes in my kitchen range. Stove, and/or, a mix of stove/nut during the day for faster temp changes and hotter fire for cooking/baking, and nut coal at night to get longer burn times.

And also as Franco mentioned, depth of firebed has an effect on what size will work. If you buying bagged coal, you can try a mix of nut and pea size and see if the PB stove will keep burning.

Paul

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 5:31 pm

Yep, I agree with the others, if you are looking for a long burn at a low heat output a mix of nut and pea size would do that quite well. You might even be able to achieve that with just nut size and a really deep bed. Like 10+ inches deep. The trick will be to moderate the draft strength with the tall chimney when it's really cold out. A variable draft will produce variable burn durations with variable heat output. I would choose a baro because they are automatic which should make for less trips to the basement.

 
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Pauliewog
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Post by Pauliewog » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 6:15 pm

Don't be afraid to try it for a day or two with straight pea coal.

The oat's here this week averaged mid 30's with nightime dips into the teens and 20's.

I'm burning straight pea all week with anywhere between 12 and 18 hours between tendings. My son has been burning straight pea all winter, for the past few years, keeping his 600 sf basement nice and toasty.

When it gets a little colder I will go back to a 50/50 nut and pea blend until we drop into the single digits. Then it's straight nut in the 13" Home Stove Works.

Paulie

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 6:37 pm

My father in law burns lehigh pea in both his hand fed stoves, as I do in my stoker boiler. He has no issue with burning from 70 degree outside temps down to -30 (as cold as I’ve seen it since we started using coal).

If u want a slow low burn, give it very little air, you want hot, give it a lot!

With his hopper fed bimetallic controlled stoves, he can 24-48 hours between tending when OATs are above 30, below that and it’s 12-24 hours.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 5:32 am

Another vote for pea coal. Nut will work also, but pea is very easy to shovel/handle and will work great for long/steady burns.


 
nickdearing88
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Post by nickdearing88 » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 6:11 am

I've also been using mainly pea this year, especially in mild temps. Using nut with 40F temps outside would have over-heated my water temps and the high-limit aquastat would be kicking on constantly. I've also seen 18-24 hour burns without issue, using pea. Using nut alone, I really need to service every 12 hours (I think due to the reduced volume of coal in the firebox due to size). Lately, I've been filling with nut, then adding a few inches of pea on top, as I only bought 1 ton pea to try, and 2 tons of nut. Next year I'll switch that around....

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 7:35 am

NoSmoke wrote:
Wed. Nov. 14, 2018 4:36 pm
Sorry Mainers, the old pellet stove was just not cutting the mustard when it came to keeping the cold at bay with Maine derived pellets. It was time to import the good stuff from PA!

Today my wife and I (surely you remember Katie), installed our old Woods and Bishop Pot Bellied stove in our new Tiny House.

BUT....

It is in the basement. Our goal here is to just keep the floors warm, and not heat the whole house. Despite putting hay around the outside of the house, we are averaging temperatures down there of only 38 degrees. Obviously at 20 degrees, 38 is cold, but what would it be like when it is 20 below zero outside?

So I do not want to make a lot of trips to the basement. I want long burn times. I always thought stove coal gave me that from its large chunks, adding lots of coal, and controlling the air for fire control. But a coal burner on another forum told me there is more air holes in stove coal so it burns hotter, faster. So what do I burn, stove, nut, pea? The grates will take all three.

The stove has PLENTY of draft. It is located inside, it is 28 feet high, masonry chimney on a house on a hill.
Guess you decided not to move forward with putting the New Yorker in the basement? That would keep the basement warm AND heat your domestic hot water.

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 7:54 am

They are a nice hand fed boiler! I dragged mine to its knees when I used it and it performed well.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 8:30 am

What Franco was trying to point out, that pot belly stove has fairly a deep firebed. Straight pea coal may choke it.. whereas with a modern stove with a wider shallower bed, running straight pea works fine.

My old pot belly stove was a bit smaller than Nosmokes, so the bed wasn't quite as deep and it couldn't run well on just pea sized coal. A mix of nut and pea size was as small as it could handle, and at that, the heat output suffered. Same for my kitchen range with it's 8 inch deep firebed. Fill it with small coal and yeah it burns a long time, but hardly any heat coming from the stove. It burns so slow that most of the heat volume is going to the chimney. And, I doubt pea coal would work in the 12 inch deep bed of my #6.

A mix of nut and pea is called "range coal" - something many of the old stoves can and did use for long burns that put out a decent amount of heat. Richard said he used to sell quite a bit of it.

Paul

 
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mntbugy
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Post by mntbugy » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 8:41 am

Just closing your under fire air damper 20-50% after fire is established and target temp is met will extend your burn time big time.

 
NoSmoke
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Post by NoSmoke » Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 4:53 am

Nope: Strangest thing ever.

I had it going with Stove Coal because it was all I had. So I went to bed at 10 PM and it was going well, the coal bed was pretty deep, holding (1) 40 pound bag of coal, glowing so well through and through that the stove itself was glowing, temperature in the basement was a nice 80 degrees, with the bottom damper at 1/3 open. I know that sounds kind of shut, but you don't understand how cherry red the stove was glowing either! So I went to bed and woke up at 4:30 AM and the basement was 45 degrees and the coal fire out. Warm, but not glowing and definitely not hot.

The stove was filled with coal up to the belly band (the bottom section of the stove and not the mitten rail) which is a different part of the stove; almost to the loading door. It should have had enough coal. And the wind was howling and the draft in the chimney was good.

I am deeply disappointed.
Last edited by NoSmoke on Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
NoSmoke
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Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
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Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 5:01 am

Since this is going to take more investigation than I thought, a picture of my coal stove may be in order. The installation has moved, but this is the same, exact stove so everyone can see what I have.
DSCN5236.JPG
.JPG | 477.4KB | DSCN5236.JPG

 
NoSmoke
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Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 5:23 am

Rob R. wrote:
Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 7:35 am
Guess you decided not to move forward with putting the New Yorker in the basement? That would keep the basement warm AND heat your domestic hot water.
Well, not yet.

It has been kind of tough moving from a house with hyronic heat to this home, but we kind of expected a tough first year. Unfortunately this is Maine, winter is here already, and we are just getting by for now.

We already know that at some point we will have to invest heavily into a good heating system. What that will look like, I am not really sure. We love radiant floor heat, and if money was no object that is what we would have. We never realized just how great our other homes heating system was! The New Yorker WC 90 could certainly be a part of that overall system. Unfortunately, that was also an expensive heating system too!

But we could also install a wood/coal furnance, and then just duct the heat into the homes existing oil burning furnance plenum and send the heat throughout the house. That is a cheap option.

I suppose the New Yorker WC 90 could be installed down there and the same thing done, but with a big copper coil in the oil firnace plenum so that heat from the water of the New Yorker WC 90 heats up the air that is dispersed through the existing duct work of the home.

Or, I even thought (quite loosely) of going crazy with my welder and cutting torch and modifying the New Yorker WC 90, and converting it from an wood/coal boiler into a wood/coal furnace. I welded up critical areas of the USS Zumwalt so a wood/coal furnace would not be a problem. Kind of too bad to destroy a perfectly good boiler and convert it, but it is too bad to start from scratch on a wood/coal furnace when I could use what I already have.


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