Crawford Grand Questuons

 
Spinks
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 12:48 am
Location: Outside Boston MA
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Grand Number 7

Post by Spinks » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 1:07 am

Hi, newbie here, apologies if these questions have been addressed.

I have a Crawford Grand coal stove which was in the 200 year Old house my parents bought in 1974. It was still in use at the time, though the 90 year old woman who lived there had it converted to kerosene many years earlier.

My dad promtly disconnected the stove and moved it to the barn when he bought the house. It has sat in the barn for 44 years, and accumulated significant rust.

I’m now in the process of renovating the barn—installing a raised wood floor and new footings. The space will be used as a workshop/guest house. I’d like to heat the barn with the Crawford. My questions are:

1. What is the best way to remove rust and restore the finish of the stove? I have seen multiple opinions on this, but curious if this forum has a more definitive answer.

2. Do I need a hearth for this stove? It originally sat on the wood floor but I suspect that would no longer be up to code (I live in Massachusetts). But is it actually necessary?

3. Do I need a permit to install the chimney of this stove? Can I get away without getting a permit? I know, highly subjective.

Is this all illegal?

Thanks again


 
Spinks
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 12:48 am
Location: Outside Boston MA
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Grand Number 7

Post by Spinks » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 1:11 am

Just to clarify, my intention would be to use pellet anthracite as fuel.

 
coalfan
Member
Posts: 1829
Joined: Tue. Mar. 12, 2013 3:00 pm
Location: NW ohio
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds circultor1500 \chubby coal stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/ pea ant.some bit.
Other Heating: kerosene\cold nat. gas

Post by coalfan » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 1:47 am

fill out tyhe rest of your profile , and pellet ant, do you mean nut or pea or rice .

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25556
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 8:05 am

Welcome, Spinks.

First some questions for you,...is it a wood or a coal stove ? Many New England kitchen ranges were sold with wood grates and they don't do well for clearing coal ash. Do you have the grates that were likely removed when it was converted to kero ?

Can you post pictures of the stove, plus the inside of the firebox, so that we can tell you if it is set up to deal with coal. If there are no coal grates, don't despair, they came in several types and were designed to be swapped. One of the stove restoration shops may have a set of coal grates for that model.

What do you mean by pellet coal ? Coal goes by other names for it's sizes (see picture below). If you mean coal the size of wood pellets that's too small to work with most coal grates. Typically, kitchen ranges use "nut" or "stove" sized coal.

How big an area are you planning on heating ? Are there tall ceilings ?

Because of their smaller fireboxes, kitchen ranges are not as good at heating a large area as a parlor stove that often holds twice as much coal. I use both types in this 150 year old, large house. Like many old homes, the kitchen range for the back of the house and a parlor stove for the front. At 25 pound capacity, just for heating use, the firebox of my 1903 Glenwood range has to be filled twice as often as the 50 pound firepot of my Glenwood base heater parlor stove. With their greater surface area, kitchen ranges do a very good job of extracting heat - better than many parlor stoves of that era - but they are still restricted in heat volume by that smaller firebox.

As far as the fire codes, our many Massachusetts members can help you better with that. That can vary by municipality and your home owner's insurance company.

Yes, many old ranges were put on bare wood floors. You can tell by all the burn marks. :D The fire codes will require some type of hearth. Even if they didn't, you should use a hearth board under the firebox end of the range. Sometimes hot coals fall out when removing the ash pan. Lowes sells a large hearth board that is not overly expensive and is large enough for the firebox end of a range.

If you decide to go ahead with the range as your heat source, there are many ways to clean rust. One of the least expensive, and doesn't involve disassembly, is elbow grease and a steel wire brush. Then brush on coats of stove polish. That's how I clean any rust off my stoves. And I have a sandblasting booth for my business, but sometimes that's more work.

Paul

Attachments

Coal_Sizes.jpg
.JPG | 125.9KB | Coal_Sizes.jpg

 
User avatar
tcalo
Member
Posts: 2068
Joined: Tue. Dec. 13, 2011 4:57 pm
Location: Long Island, New York
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40
Coal Size/Type: Nut/stove anthracite

Post by tcalo » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 8:52 am

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t sand blasting leave a rougher surface than good old wire brush and elbow grease? I used a wire wheel on a drill to clean up my stove. Actually, a few wire wheels...haha.

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25556
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 9:51 am

tcalo wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 8:52 am
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t sand blasting leave a rougher surface than good old wire brush and elbow grease? I used a wire wheel on a drill to clean up my stove. Actually, a few wire wheels...haha.
Tommy,

Yes, a wire brush "burnishes" the surface more than abrades it. But you still have the rust pits, which are often more noticeable than the original sand cast finish. You get those no matter what you use to remove the rust.

As for blasting with abrasives, it depends on the grit size and type of blasting media used.

Fine sand and fine recycled auto glass leave the surface the same texture as unfinished sand casting. Usually a couple of coats of thick-bodied paint (like many of the better quality high temp paints) will fill in much of that texture as the paint "levels" during drying.

Steel slag - sometimes sold under the name of "Black Beauty" - is far more aggressive for it's grit size and leaves a slightly deeper texture.

Glass beads are less aggressive and leave the smoothest surface, but are the slowest at removing rust - which as you may know, is a hard oxide of iron.

Paul

 
Spinks
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 12:48 am
Location: Outside Boston MA
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Grand Number 7

Post by Spinks » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 1:48 am

Thanks for these great responses!!! I will post detailed pics and clarifications later today.

We got the old girl up on cribbing today. Oof.
078FE37E-A3CA-4495-B340-A2CFE1AF516B.jpeg
.JPEG | 1MB | 078FE37E-A3CA-4495-B340-A2CFE1AF516B.jpeg


 
Spinks
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 12:48 am
Location: Outside Boston MA
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Grand Number 7

Post by Spinks » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 8:56 pm

Hi folks, thanks again for the thoughtful replies. Here are some pics of stove and the coal I was intending to use.

Does the fire box need some kind of grate inside it to hold the coal?

Attachments


 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25556
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:01 pm

Yes, there has to be grates to support the firebed up off the ash pan area. And they need to be the type used for coal.

Many ranges came with grates designed just for wood,..... or they had "combo" type grates that were a compromise for wood and for coal,..... or they had just coal grates and you could place a wood or "summer" grate on top of the coal grates.

Since coal fires need their main air supply coming in under the firebed, the grates tend to have larger and more of gaps in the grates than normally used for a wood fire.

You'll also need the support frame that the grate bars sit into. That frame then slides into the range firebox, at about the height of the top of the ash pan opening - which is called the hearth end of the range.

You could try contacting coal stove restoration shops to see if they have grate bars and frame. Some are members of this forum.

Here's just three that restore many antique kitchen ranges and often have parts, or can get them recast.
Wilsons Wood Stoves 508-763-8941.
Antique Stove Hospital, http://stovehospital.com/
Barnstable Stove Shop, http://www.barnstablestove.com/

If you want to learn more about kitchen ranges I suggest you read the Cookin' With Coal thread. Lots of info on what the parts are and how they work. here's the link, Cookin' With Coal

Paul

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13763
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Oct. 15, 2018 6:46 am

Open the top left door all the way and snap a pic please. If there is a shaft sticking out for a handle, it will burn anthracite.

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25556
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Oct. 15, 2018 10:24 am

If you enlarge his second picture,... down near the bottom of the firebox loading door,... you can see through to the ash drawer area. If there were grates in the stove you wouldn't be able to see through there at that point and angle.

Plus, there's the left-hand hinge clip for the broiler door is broken off. And I don't see the broiler door in the picture. A new hinge clip can be made out of mild steel - I had to make one for mine - but if missing, a broiler door will need to be found.

Paul

 
wilsons woodstoves
Member
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon. Dec. 16, 2013 7:55 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood, Crawford, Magee, Herald, Others

Post by wilsons woodstoves » Mon. Oct. 15, 2018 9:26 pm

best or easy way to clean that stove is brush the dirt and loose rust of and cover the whole stove with cooking oil. I like pam, it sprays on and is thin and will penetrate. let it stand a few days. then wire brush ,flat scrapper,drill ,sandpaper etc. wipe it with news paper but it realy should be taken apart and sand blasted .that's a very nice antique stove wilson

 
User avatar
joeq
Member
Posts: 5739
Joined: Sat. Feb. 11, 2012 11:53 am
Location: Northern CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: G111, Southard Robertson

Post by joeq » Mon. Oct. 15, 2018 10:56 pm

Concerning rust removal, what do you guys think of this rust "converter"? Basically phosphoric acid. Used quite a bit in the automotive industry, and something that was just recommended to me this summer. I used it on some rusty sheetmetal, and framing, and it seems to be effective. Can't say what the long term results will be, or how it would work on a cast iron stove.

Image

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25556
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Oct. 15, 2018 11:21 pm

Using phosphoric acid to clean ferrous metal is not new. Anyone remember the old rust remover called "Navel Jelly" ?

The rust and phosphoric acid has to be neutralized by washing it off with water. Guess what the water puts back on the iron,.... yup, more rust. :yes:

And if not completely removed, phosphoric acid leaves a residue that I've seen cause paint contamination adhesion problems.

As Wilson said, best way is sand blasting. Second best, but least expensive because it is so low-tech, is wire brush.

Paul

 
stovehospital
Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat. Jun. 25, 2011 7:00 pm

Post by stovehospital » Thu. Oct. 18, 2018 9:03 pm

This model is held together by long rods that pass from the cook top to the base. That is one reason why they are still around. Long rods eliminate the tension on the corners that comes from rust buildup under the tabs. best thing is to heat the nuts on the rods till red , then attempt to get them off. This works about 30% of the time. Save the old rods so you can duplicate them
Sand blast or wheelabrate is the way to go. Do it all!!! Don't skip pieces. Then start over and build a new stove. Do not over tighten the nuts, you are not assembling a Chevy short block. I like to paint many of the pieces first then assemble. The cement does not stick to the paint and helps with cleanup.
This model has three different types of grates. It depends on the year and is determined by the look of the door at the front of the fire box. I have the code book that shows what to use. I might have the coal grate and the frame. Many of the early frames are three sided and require a front protector. I might have that as well.
The Grand Crawford was made for a very long time and changed little in appearance. You bought one, used it till the kids got married, then gave them the stove and bought another like it for yourself. The insides did vary.


Post Reply

Return to “Antiques, Baseburners, Kitchen Stoves, Restorations & Modern Reproductions”