Vale oak / cylinder stove ash build up

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swattley01
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Post by swattley01 » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 11:04 am

i have been with the forum on and off for a long time with this problem of trying to get this Cylinder stove to burn into the next morning and be able to add coal and keep it running lets say for a weekend without going out. i think this concept could also pertain to anyone using a pot belly stove since the fire box is the same. when the stove was restored we added molded fire brick to the sides of the fire box, it is about 2.5 inches thick. the shaker grate is two piece, the outside is round and shakes in a circle, the middle is more like a dump grate as it will open into a two piece grate. it seems when i load the stove at night to the top of the fire box, after about an hour or more the whole load of coal is burning from top to bottom, and as it builds up ash the ash seems to be suspended about the great, (maybe) but the shaker does very little to drop lot of ash build up. i have never open the center dump part of the grate while stove is burning. i wonder if the added molded fire brick is causing my problem. hope some one see this post who has experience with a pot belly type fire box and shaker

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 11:06 am

Some pix of innards would be real helpful--next time ya tend.

 
polarbear119
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Post by polarbear119 » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 12:55 pm

I have the same grates in my Lehigh Oak stove and had bridging as well. Every shake down I had to poke it around first. I switched to Lehigh coal and have not had any bridging at all from a low burn up through a very hot one.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 1:16 pm

swattley01 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 11:04 am
i have been with the forum on and off for a long time with this problem of trying to get this Cylinder stove to burn into the next morning and be able to add coal and keep it running lets say for a weekend without going out. i think this concept could also pertain to anyone using a pot belly stove since the fire box is the same. when the stove was restored we added molded fire brick to the sides of the fire box, it is about 2.5 inches thick. the shaker grate is two piece, the outside is round and shakes in a circle, the middle is more like a dump grate as it will open into a two piece grate. it seems when i load the stove at night to the top of the fire box, after about an hour or more the whole load of coal is burning from top to bottom, and as it builds up ash the ash seems to be suspended about the great, (maybe) but the shaker does very little to drop lot of ash build up. i have never open the center dump part of the grate while stove is burning. i wonder if the added molded fire brick is causing my problem. hope some one see this post who has experience with a pot belly type fire box and shaker
If my guess is right, your stove model number "315" means it has a 15 inch diameter firepot - is that so ? And you say you added 2-1/2 inch thick liner ? If so, that's a loss of 5 inches of firepot volume and doesn't leave much room for coal, which would cause two problems.

1. The coal column is tall and narrow, which can contribute to bridging.
2. The firepot won't hold much coal to get long burn times.

FYI, most original firebrick liners were only about an inch thick. That's thick enough to give the best compromise between, keeping enough heat in the firebed to get good burn efficiency, and still have the maximum coal volume and burn times for that firepot size.

As for the dump grates,..... Some grate designs can be a bit tougher to break up the larger ash clumps during a shaking. The longer those big clumps remain in the firebed the tougher they become, turning into "clinkers". As those dead ash chunks accumulate there's less room in the firebed for coal that can burn. So the stove is unable to put out as much heat and run as long between tendings.

The drawer center and dump center type grates are used to drop those thicker pieces into the ash pan while the coal pile is bridged so that you don't dump all of the firebed. Then you close the grates and poke the bridged ash to get it to drop onto the grates. Then you can shake the loose ash on down.

There's some guys on here that have been successfully running the same type grates for quite awhile and can give you better info as to how to make that bridged ash pile work for you, not against you.

Paul


 
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swattley01
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Post by swattley01 » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 2:33 pm

that is one thing i have been after is to talk with some people on how to properly use this grate system since i never have found any kind of instructions on how the manufacturer intended it to be used. maybe the fire brick is not as think as i thought i still can get a whole coal bucket in the stove. i tought maybe the material compared to cast iron might prevent it from dropping down, i used to have great pictures of the great i think they are in a past post in here.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 3:17 pm

swattley01 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 2:33 pm
that is one thing i have been after is to talk with some people on how to properly use this grate system since i never have found any kind of instructions on how the manufacturer intended it to be used. maybe the fire brick is not as think as i thought i still can get a whole coal bucket in the stove. i tought maybe the material compared to cast iron might prevent it from dropping down, i used to have great pictures of the great i think they are in a past post in here.
Paging Scalabo,.. paging Scalabro. Your help is needed in the grate department. :D Scott has helped others with the type grate system you have, use that tendency for bridging to good affect. If he doesn't see this thread you can pm him for help.

Yeah, way back then, the stove makers weren't big on things like owner's manuals that explain how to properly use the stoves.

Is that a 5 gallon bucket (holds about 40 lbs of nut coal), or an antique coal bucket (about 35 lbs of nut), or the new coal buckets sold in stove shops as "ash buckets" (about 25 lbs of nut).

With a one inch thick liner, the average 15 inch Oak firepot should hold around 40 pounds of coal. But even with lots of coal capacity, very often the limiting factor for length of tending-times is ash build up. That usually happens before it's time to add more coal. So, doing a good, thorough job of ash clearing at tending is a big part of getting long burn times.

Paul

 
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swattley01
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Post by swattley01 » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 3:57 pm

grate system.JPG
.JPG | 44.6KB | grate system.JPG
here is a picture of the fire box before the addition of molded firebrick, next time i am up i will take one of the fire brick.
burning coal.JPG
.JPG | 28.1KB | burning coal.JPG

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 4:04 pm

Yup, dump center grates. Even better than draw center in that those curved fingers help prevent unburned coal from falling through a gap as the two grates are turned. Or worse yet, coal getting stuck in a gap and locking the two dump grates open.

Paul


 
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Pauliewog
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Post by Pauliewog » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 4:25 pm

I may be able to help a bit. Of all of the grate combinations out there, my second favorite after the triangular grates are the clamshell type like yours.

I set up a similar grate next to my stove to indicate the grate position in the steps I normally use . Although most of my stoves have magazines that help by placing a little pressure on the fire bed during shakedown, placing a fresh shovel or two on top of the burning bed before shakedown should do the same.

First picture is with mpd open and primary air open
and grates in normal position. The shaker handles are different but similar enough to explain it.
20171120_153803.jpg
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The first thing I do is to pull the center clamshell grate to the fully up position and leave it there.
20171120_153846.jpg
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With the clamshell grate in the up position, I shake the outer ring grate back and forth until the burning red embers start falling into the empty ash pan.
20171120_153937.jpg
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The next step is to move the clamshell grate back and forth to return it to the flat position.
20171120_154012.jpg
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After returning the clamshell grate to its flat position, I again slide the outer ring grate back and forth. This normally causes the bed to fall and the fresh coal to mix in with the burning bed.
20171120_154051.jpg
.JPG | 257.4KB | 20171120_154051.jpg


Hope this helps. If you put a general location in your profile, there may be a member close by that can help. As FF says......... "Nobody is going to steal you" :D

Paulie

 
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Post by scalabro » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 4:38 pm

+1 what Paulie said!

Practice is key as well as good planning to allow for the time to learn to shake that setup during a reload.

 
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swattley01
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Post by swattley01 » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 5:31 pm

see i never turn the center clam grate while burning, i will try this, like you said it takes practice and when this happens we are asleep

 
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Post by Jeff_in_PA » Tue. Feb. 23, 2021 10:04 pm

+1 Paulie.

I too hadn’t touched the dump grate/clam claw grate - until today. Followed Paul’s advice, step by step, and it worked like a charm.

Lots of ash, little to no unburnt coal. And afterwards, blues like never before. Think she was choking on ash.

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