Is this over firing?

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specialtg
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Post by specialtg » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 12:07 pm

Brand new coal person here.
I have the Modern Glenwood Oak 116.
Its going beautifully.
However when the door is closed and all dampers closed the flames are still pretty large!
If I open the door they calm a little but I thought I was supposed to have small blue flames!

Thank in advance!

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franco b
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Post by franco b » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 12:19 pm

Most likely cause is leaking ash door. Without being air tight the fire will not be controllable.

Close a dollar bill all around the door to see if it holds tightly.

Opening the loading door has the effect of diverting air from the coal bed.

To seal the ash door you can use thin fiberglass gasket or a bead of high temp. silicone applied to door flange, and closed on a sheet of waxed paper covering the door opening. With a cold stove of course.

The ash door vents also should be capable of sealing well.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 12:23 pm

specialtg wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 12:07 pm
Brand new coal person here.
I have the Modern Glenwood Oak 116.
Its going beautifully.
However when the door is closed and all dampers closed the flames are still pretty large!
If I open the door they calm a little but I thought I was supposed to have small blue flames!

Thank in advance!
Welcome.


As Franco said, air tightness affects control, but flame length is not critical. As long as you can see flame you know that the carbon monoxide is burning off and there's no risk gas buildup in the stove that can cause a puff-back.

Different brands of coal can have slightly higher volatile content and the flames can be quite long at times. Also with a fairly fresh load of coal. After the coal has been burning for a few hours the flames may shorten up some.

Paul

 
specialtg
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Oak #116

Post by specialtg » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 12:40 pm

THank you!!!
There is nothing around the ash door! The dollar bill slid right out. Was there a gasket originally? It was a fresh start up with a fresh load of coal but its been about 2 hours.
Will try to seal the door when its off.
We started the stove with match light grill charcoal. Is that ok? Start up was so easy.
Thanks again. I would never have got this far without this forum!


 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 1:04 pm

specialtg wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 12:40 pm
THank you!!!
There is nothing around the ash door! The dollar bill slid right out. Was there a gasket originally? It was a fresh start up with a fresh load of coal but its been about 2 hours.
Will try to seal the door when its off.
We started the stove with match light grill charcoal. Is that ok? Start up was so easy.
Thanks again. I would never have got this far without this forum!
Nope no gasket originally. The door was ground to fit, but over the years cast iron will change shape slightly as it's heated and cooled. It's the casting stresses in the metal being "relaxed".

What the early stove builders considered "air tight" is not as air tight as modern day gasketed stoves. But the early stove were designed to work that way and they did very well.

What Franco had you do with the dollar bill test shows that the door isn't as "antique stove air-tight" as it could be. That could be caused by heat cycled stress relief in the door and front casting, and/or, the door hinge pins and holes are worn.

You can try gasketing the door, but high temp silicone won't hold up to the high temperatures that close to the firebed, so you'd need to figure out how to attach a fiberglass seal.

Or, as I did, check with feeler gauges where the door edges are tightest, mark with chalk and file (or grind) those areas down so that the areas of the door with the widest gaps can move in tighter when the doors are latched.

Or, leave it alone and enjoy those longer blue flames. ;)

Paul

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 1:34 pm

A manual pipe damper in the stove pipe will also slow down air flow thru the stove (by weakening negative pressure inside the stove) and give you better control of heat output with your primary air controls.

 
specialtg
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Post by specialtg » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 1:59 pm

I do have a damper up on the pipe a couple of feet above the stove and have it closed.
I thought over firing would damage things? I just replaced the 2 long grates (grateful to Wilson for those)!
I will show this to my husband and see what he can do!

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 3:23 pm

A type of fiberglass that I have used is intended for going around glass. It is two narrow strips of gasket separated by paper. Whatever is needed can be peeled off and it has built in sticky. Well suited for the narrow door flanges.

Silicone I have used has stood up well though rated for 700 degrees. The ash door is well under fire pot temperature.


 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 6:12 pm

specialtg wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 1:59 pm
I do have a damper up on the pipe a couple of feet above the stove and have it closed.
I thought over firing would damage things? I just replaced the 2 long grates (grateful to Wilson for those)!
I will show this to my husband and see what he can do!
Well then, you have an awesome chimney :D

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 7:21 pm

Hi specialtg, do you have a thermometer on your stove? Can you "almost" rest your hand on the stove pipe a couple feet away from the stove? There is a wide range of temperatures one can have dependent on the type of stove. My cast iron Vigilant can run 700* if I need but my steel box stove 500 - 550 before I worry. Many of us have hand held infrared thermometers such as this one:
https://smile.amazon.com/Thermometer-Non-contact- ... dpSrc=srch
...by the way fill that stove up! :lol:

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 10:34 am

Thanks Mike, it's WAY too easy to order stuff without even needing to get off the couch with the Amazon app hahaha. I just ordered one.

 
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Post by rberq » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 6:24 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 1:04 pm
Or, as I did, check with feeler gauges where the door edges are tightest, mark with chalk and file (or grind) those areas down so that the areas of the door with the widest gaps can move in tighter when the doors are latched.

Or, leave it alone and enjoy those longer blue flames. ;)
Sort of the same technique the dentist uses on a filling, to grind down the high spots.
A little leakage through the upper door is OK, because you want a little air above the fire, just not too much. If the fire is low enough that it doesn’t overheat the house, then no problem. Otherwise tightening up the ash door is a good idea. Gaskets? If you look at most of the antique coal stoves, I don’t think they had them.

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