Troubles With Kitchen Coal Stove Draft

Are burner plates what I refer to as stove lids? I still can't figure out what is a "clean out plate"?

In the back of my stove there is I think you call it "an internal chimney". It protrudes out the back and has two lock screws at the sides. I am afraid to open that because if I break the screws I don't know what I would do to replace them? My plumber uses a shop vac to clean under my stove lids and then he also pulls from that internal chimney. It's hard to get directly into that but his shop vac is very strong so he is able to clean that I hope.

franco b wrote: ↑

Mon. Oct. 16, 2017 10:08 pm

Draft is not the problem. The problem is that the draft is not pulling air through the coal, but from someplace above the coal bed.

Warped burner plates, open or missing cleanout plates.

If the chimney is clear, I agree, likely an air leak downstream of the firebed.

The old Kitchen ranges have long flue pathways within the range after the firebed - some longer than those of a base heater (about ten feet total length in my small range). There are many seams that could have small air leaks into the flues, all causing a cumulative reduction in draft strength.

A couple of years ago I noticed the draft for my range was not as strong as it had been. I went over all the seams in the oven with a flash light, shining it at the other side of each seam. Lots of places where I could see light coming through because the 100+ year old seam chalking had disintegrated.

I cleaned out loose caulking where ever I could and went over all the seams with a finger-smear of furnace cement to reseal each one. The draft greatly improved. Plus, no more dust in the oven after each round of shaking ashes.

Paul

coalstovelady wrote: ↑

Mon. Oct. 16, 2017 10:40 pm

Are burner plates what I refer to as stove lids? I still can't figure out what is a "clean out plate"?

In the back of my stove there is I think you call it "an internal chimney". It protrudes out the back and has two lock screws at the sides. I am afraid to open that because if I break the screws I don't know what I would do to replace them? My plumber uses a shop vac to clean under my stove lids and then he also pulls from that internal chimney. It's hard to get directly into that but his shop vac is very strong so he is able to clean that I hope.

Burner plates,....
I'm pretty sure Franco means that the burner plates are the many plates that make up the cooktop surface. If they warp, as they do with age, they draw air in after the fire, which reduces the draft strength. The plates on my 1903 Glenwood range were badly heat warped when I got it. The draft was horrible until I bought replacement plates from a stove restoration shop.

Cleanout plates.....
The flues surrounding the oven have to have some type of cleanout plate, or door. Depending on the age of the range it can be a rectangular, removable door on the front, or the side, just below the level of the oven floor. Or, on some later ranges the plate sits in the floor of the oven. If those don't seal well they can leak air into the flues causing reduced draft.

Also, any cracks in the stove walls, that sometimes happen with age, can cause draft reducing leaks. Have you checked the oven walls, and the underside of the flues that run under the oven floor for any cracks ?

What about cleaning out those flues under the oven ? Has that been done recently ?

Can you post pictures of what you refer to as the internal chimney ?

Paul

Burner plates are the removable plates you put a pot on. I want to call them eyes but Paul has corrected that.

Usually there are clean out plates to clean deposits from around the oven. If one is open or missing it provides a direct path to the chimney, bypassing the coal. You mention lifting one of the cook plates to cool the fire. It does that because the air no longer passes through the coal bed, and I think that is happening at some place in the stove. Perhaps the seam where the top meets the body of the stove.

Paul ( Sunny Boy) would be much more knowledgeable in this area than I.

Paul, thank you. I actually checked every seam inside my oven today with a flashlight funny you should mention that. There isn't even any dust or soot inside as you say from "shaking ashes". I don't think those seams are disintegrated. Of course I could be wrong but everything in that area seems very solid. Like I mentioned, the only thing that were a bit lose were a couple of my fire bricks and I used furnace cement and got them in there solid now.

OK cook plates. I call them lids. They seem to be in good shape. I'm really getting confused with the subject of flues that surround the oven. I have no concept what you are referring to as flues surrounding the oven. Can you describe that for me please.

coalstovelady wrote: ↑

Mon. Oct. 16, 2017 11:08 pm

Paul, thank you. I actually checked every seam inside my oven today with a flashlight funny you should mention that. There isn't even any dust or soot inside as you say from "shaking ashes". I don't think those seams are disintegrated. Of course I could be wrong but everything in that area seems very solid. Like I mentioned, the only thing that were a bit lose were a couple of my fire bricks and I used furnace cement and got them in there solid now.

Can you check for cracks/leaks under the oven with that cabinet base type range ?

One other thought. The ash drop duct feeds the under the grates area. Any leakage there should cause the fire to burn hotter like opening the primary damper too much - not cause a loss of draft. If the new heating system is pulling more air than it can be fed in the basement, it should only have an affect on the coal stove through that ash duct when it is firing to heat the house. When it shuts off itshould not cause a negative pressure in the ash duct.

Have you tried running the range on coal with the new heating system off for a few of hours ?

Paul

What I will do tomorrow is take photos of everything and try and get them into this blog. Can photos be included somewhere here?

Paul I had thought of turning off my gas furnace to see if the coal stove would work solo. I never got around to doing that this summer and it is too cold now to turn off the furnace. I had talked to my plumber about this when I had the EFM stoker because it had a blower. Actually, now with the gas furnace it didn't seem to be an issue. ???? I agree with you that the ash drop duct if leaking would give me more of a draft because it is below the grates but then I got thinking that some law of physics would cause it to pull the draft away. I don't know any other reason but I believe I have brainstormed this quite a bit over the past few years.

coalstovelady wrote: ↑

Mon. Oct. 16, 2017 11:13 pm

OK cook plates. I call them lids. They seem to be in good shape. I'm really getting confused with the subject of flues that surround the oven. I have no concept what you are referring to as flues surrounding the oven. Can you describe that for me please.

Sure.
When you start the stove there must be some damper handle you move to direct the exhaust to go from the firebox to the stove's stove pipe collar, then on to the chimney. Once the fire is established you move the oven damper lever to the positon to heat the oven, correct ?

To heat the oven, there are flues, separated by baffles (internal walls) that lead from the firebox, across under the cooktop plates and the top of the oven, to the far side of the oven. Then down half of that far side and under half of the oven floor, then they turn a baffle to the other half of the oven floor, then up the far side of the oven and out to the rear of the range to the stove pipe. That way the firebox heats one side of the oven and the flues channel the exhaust heat around the top, other side, and bottom of the oven before the exhaust can leave the range.

In some, like my range, there is a optional water reservoir tank on the far end from the firebox end, There is an additional flue surround the water tank. There is another damper between the oven wall and the water tank housing with two doors that diverts some of the hot exhaust traveling around the oven and sends it around the sides and bottom of the water tank. That's about another two feet of flues and lots more seam length for potential air leakage into the flues.

Remember that, normally, the flues have slightly lower pressure than the room air, so any openings will leak cooler room air into the flues. The result is some cooling of the hot exhaust, which inturn reduces the pressure difference that makes draft work.

Paul

coalstovelady wrote: ↑

Mon. Oct. 16, 2017 11:19 pm

What I will do tomorrow is take photos of everything and try and get them into this blog. Can photos be included somewhere here?

Yes, you easily can add them to your posts by the "drag and drop" method

1. Put the photos on your computer desk top. Then reduce the posting page so that you can just see where those pictures on the desk top.

2. In the box that you type your text to make a post, just right click on each photo, drag it to that text box and let go of the button.

3. Wait until the photo finishes uploading and the green progress bar down on the right turns to a green circle. Then do the same with the next picture.

4. Hit the submit button like you've been doing.

I think the limit is still five pictures per post so you may have to start another post to add more pictures than that.

coalstovelady wrote: ↑

Mon. Oct. 16, 2017 11:29 pm

Paul I had thought of turning off my gas furnace to see if the coal stove would work solo. I never got around to doing that this summer and it is too cold now to turn off the furnace. I had talked to my plumber about this when I had the EFM stoker because it had a blower. Actually, now with the gas furnace it didn't seem to be an issue. ???? I agree with you that the ash drop duct if leaking would give me more of a draft because it is below the grates but then I got thinking that some law of physics would cause it to pull the draft away. I don't know any other reason but I believe I have brainstormed this quite a bit over the past few years.

A coal fire in warm weather is not a good test of range's drafting ability. Cooler weather creates a stronger draft.

But if your worried about the house getting too cold, it's supposed to warm up a bit later this week. Maybe get the range going on wood. Then put a jacket and hat on and shut off the house heat for just three-four hours while you switch over to coal ? That should be a long enough test to let the house heat part of the chimney system cool off enough to know if it's running is causing the problem ???

Paul

Probably missed it but, what size coal are you using? Hopefully at least NUT size??

freetown fred wrote: ↑

Tue. Oct. 17, 2017 6:25 am

Probably missed it but, what size coal are you using? Hopefully at least NUT size??

Good point, Fred. She mentioned that she's tried another brand of coal to rule out a bad batch, but hasn't mentioned coal size. Nut, or stove is the most recommended sizes for a range.

Paul

First let me say thank you so much to all of you. I finally know I am talking to people who understand stoves. Let me address each post. The size of the coal I used for 36 years was a mix of pea and nut. It was the same for both the Kewanee furnace and the stove - never was an issue. But yes I bought nut. I even tried stove coal. I bought coal from different distributors too just to try and satisfy my mind that the coal was good. All of this to no avail. Paul, I can try that test you mention about shutting off the furnace. As I said I had planned on doing that but somehow forgot or discounted it as a waste of time since I had an EFM stoker in between the Kewanee and now the Gas Wel McClane. I understand what you are saying but I am not sure what it will prove so refresh my mind on that please. You might also want to know that I talked about this to quite a few people over the past few years such as coal delivery men, my plumber, my stone mason/chimney man, an old friend who knows just so many things now in his late 80's sharp as a whip, stove/furnace sales people, and most of them can't figure it out or don't want to bother listening to a woman and just want to replace something that I would never do. I would leave it like a statue before I would move it out. It is part of the history of this home. I'm not trying to sound dramatic but I bought my home for the love of it, restored and preserved it. Today's mentality is to remove and replace. I even tried to save my Kewanee furnace to no avail on that one. When they crack they are about dead. I thank you for explaining how to download the pictures so I will take a few and get them posted. PAUL, now about those flues and dampers - what a great description. Thanks so much. Here is what I know. There is a lever type 'thing' in the front that I pull to me if I want more heat in the oven rather than heat go up the chimney. At the back end of it there is sort of a flap that opens and closes. It has never mattered in the past and I only used it for that purpose, to open the oven door and get more heat. I have always had a very very warm home with the Kewanee and I have a very very large home with 11 radiators and 13 rooms. The kitchen has no radiator and thus the cook stove. The prior owner cooked on that stove for her family with no other stove so you know she used the stove 12 months. I never used the cook stove except in fall and winter but I know she fed her family and I saw the kitchen how it was set up by her with pieces of furniture, a cook stove and a sink. Her refrigerator was in the 'ice room' off the pantry. I have seven doors in my kitchen and it is the heart of the home I love so much. I wouldn't change a thing except I had cabinets made to mirror the decor she had and it is beautiful and functional. I also have an electric range in the kitchen because I worked and needed that convenience. I'm old now myself and sincere when I say my stove is making me sad and it makes no sense why it stopped holding a draft but I will find the answer. You all are so very nice in helping me and I appreciate it so much. Thank you. I never used a blog before. This is a new experience. Paul, where are those flues and how can I identify them because there is nothing visible except that lever I mentioned and when I pull it, it sort of shuts back the draft on the stove pipe leading to the chimney. I did pull it yesterday while the wood and paper was burning and noticed slightly some smoke backing up so I immediately opened it again. I never in the past used that lever when starting my stove and used it only to get more heat into the oven or the kitchen as I noted above. I also know the prior owner had a copper water tank sitting next to the stove but that was sold before I bought the house. They really lived in the 20th century here, another reason why I love the home so much because it is pure and not chopped up. I am the 3rd family owner in 150 years. The original owner didn't even have indoor plumbing and it was the 2nd owner that I speak of who brought in the Beechwood Kitchen Coal Stove and the Kewanee furnace and indoor plumbing.