this guys article is quite telling https://www.inc.com/encyclopedia/underwriters-lab ... es-ul.html
wiki is also ok for a short look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_%28safety_organization%29
if you want to make easy money self disignate as the sole source of standards then charge fee's ( multiple usually ) to test then more to certify products under government sanction and insurance kick backs
i have nothing personal against these guys however...........................
New Manufacture of Antique Stoves
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- Member
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
- Location: Elkhart county, IN.
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
- Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
- Other Heating: none
I did some scanning while eating lunch, found some international mechnical code (https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/code/287/4963527) and under section 905 it specifies UL 737 and 1482. I suspect the answer to my question is it UL certification is driven by building code. Next free time, I'll try to find some North American building code site to search through see if I can find an equivalent.
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- Member
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
- Location: Elkhart county, IN.
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
- Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
- Other Heating: none
the only reason any of this besides common sence clearances and flooring protections became normative in building codes is BECAUSE U.L. stated they had arrived at specific codes and ONLY products and practices bearing their mark could / would or do meet them.
That was easy once I knew what to look for, found the local building code, went directly to the section on heating and cooling found UL 737 for fireplace inserts and UL 1482 for stoves. -- Building codes are what drives stoves/inserts to get UL certification.
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Follow on questions,
how is the testing for UL 737 different from UL 1482?
how are restored antique stoves and inserts grandfathered? (by building codes)
Hear ya, though still have to get state building code boards to adopt us Got any grease in that billfold?
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Follow on questions,
how is the testing for UL 737 different from UL 1482?
how are restored antique stoves and inserts grandfathered? (by building codes)
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
When there's no UL listing (antique stoves) often code enforcement will default to the National Fire Code's standard of 36 inch clearance from all combustibles and an approved type hearth, or the NFC recommendations for methods/materials to reduce clearances. There have been threads on here about people running into problems with installing antiques and their insurance company, or code inspectors gave them a hard time. Once the stove has been shown to meet NFC installation standards, it's usually accepted.gardener wrote: ↑Wed. Dec. 20, 2017 1:19 pmThat was easy once I knew what to look for, found the local building code, went directly to the section on heating and cooling found UL 737 for fireplace inserts and UL 1482 for stoves. -- Building codes are what drives stoves/inserts to get UL certification.
Hear ya, though still have to get state building code boards to adopt us Got any grease in that billfold?
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Follow on questions,
how is the testing for UL 737 different from UL 1482?
how are restored antique stoves and inserts grandfathered? (by building codes)
The problems usually come from inspectors who don't know the codes until someone shows them.
Paul
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- Member
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
- Location: Elkhart county, IN.
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
- Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
- Other Heating: none
gardener wrote: ↑Wed. Dec. 20, 2017 1:19 pm
Building codes are what drives stoves/inserts to get UL certification.
still incorrect, UL code claims and cert. demands is what drives local and state Building Codes and insurance and re-insurance markets and practices.
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Follow on questions,
how is the testing for UL 737 different from UL 1482?
how are restored antique stoves and inserts grandfathered? (by building codes)
I think we are saying the same thing. My question pertained to why the manufacturers bother with UL certification. I agree with what you are saying.
I could see establishing a board, drafting an open testing standard, one for coal burning stoves and one for coal burning fireplace inserts. Certify a number of units. Shop the testing standard to the relevant code enforcing/establishing bodies.
I cannot see that UL has a monopoly on standards, especially since there are other standards organizations and even other businesses that do testing and certification. If an open standard is available then UL could even offer its testing services, an open standard would not even compete with them.
Thoughts?
I cannot see that UL has a monopoly on standards, especially since there are other standards organizations and even other businesses that do testing and certification. If an open standard is available then UL could even offer its testing services, an open standard would not even compete with them.
Thoughts?