Our Glenwood 109
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- Member
- Posts: 4837
- Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
- Location: Elkhart county, IN.
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
- Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
- Other Heating: none
yep yep yep,
filters are ultra important. even if you are just regularly do the floors or carpet. if your filters aren't at peak you can watch the dust coming out the exhaust stream real easily.
you might as well "winnow" the ash pan of fly ash right in the front room.
filters are ultra important. even if you are just regularly do the floors or carpet. if your filters aren't at peak you can watch the dust coming out the exhaust stream real easily.
you might as well "winnow" the ash pan of fly ash right in the front room.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
The best drywall dust vac system I ever used for sanding and cleaning up spackle dust was one of those inexpensive kits to use with a shop vac that has the water bucket in the hose lines. No dust and no filter needing to be replaced. Just dump the water and dust down the drain, or out in the weeds.
You can make one, too. http://toolguyd.com/shop-tip-5-gallon-bucket-diy-fine-dust-collection-trap/
And if you know anyone that does swimming pool cleaning and maintenance, the 5 gallon pails that the chlorine comes in have nice screw-on lids, so you don't have to fight with the snap-on type 5 gallon bucket lids. My brother got me a few from a neighbor in that line of work and those type buckets are much easier to use the covers on.
Paul
You can make one, too. http://toolguyd.com/shop-tip-5-gallon-bucket-diy-fine-dust-collection-trap/
And if you know anyone that does swimming pool cleaning and maintenance, the 5 gallon pails that the chlorine comes in have nice screw-on lids, so you don't have to fight with the snap-on type 5 gallon bucket lids. My brother got me a few from a neighbor in that line of work and those type buckets are much easier to use the covers on.
Paul
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Job security for the cleaning crew.KingCoal wrote:yep yep yep,
filters are ultra important. even if you are just regularly do the floors or carpet. if your filters aren't at peak you can watch the dust coming out the exhaust stream real easily.
you might as well "winnow" the ash pan of fly ash right in the front room.
Paul
- tcalo
- Member
- Posts: 2068
- Joined: Tue. Dec. 13, 2011 4:57 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40
- Coal Size/Type: Nut/stove anthracite
I took the baro off my flue over the weekend to experiment, been having some dust issues. We're getting some high winds starting up from the storm headed our way. My mano reading has been bouncing around like a grasshopper! You don't realize how well the baro works at keeping a steady draft.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
The plus and minus affect of that bouncing doesn't affect the fire as much as the mano would lead you to think it is.
Manos are very quick to respond to the slightest pressure changes, but the fire is far slower. The end result is that those pressure swings cancel each other out before the fire can do any change.
Wanna see an example of that slow reacting ? Shut the primary damper completely and see how long it takes a coal fire to die out.
With some test gauges they are purposely "dampened" to prevent showing those types of quick changes in readings that don't have any real value for testing purposes. By having the gauge react more slowly it can only show real change and thus give more meaningful info. If there was a way to dampen the mano by using a very narrow tube, like a copper capillary tube that some use, you would see only more of an average of changes in draft - the type of changes that are really having an affect on the fire.
So, don't let wildly bouncing mano readings fool you into thinking the draft can make the fire do the same. With a wood fire, possibly, but coal fires react much too slowly to draft changes for it to make a difference.
Paul
Manos are very quick to respond to the slightest pressure changes, but the fire is far slower. The end result is that those pressure swings cancel each other out before the fire can do any change.
Wanna see an example of that slow reacting ? Shut the primary damper completely and see how long it takes a coal fire to die out.
With some test gauges they are purposely "dampened" to prevent showing those types of quick changes in readings that don't have any real value for testing purposes. By having the gauge react more slowly it can only show real change and thus give more meaningful info. If there was a way to dampen the mano by using a very narrow tube, like a copper capillary tube that some use, you would see only more of an average of changes in draft - the type of changes that are really having an affect on the fire.
So, don't let wildly bouncing mano readings fool you into thinking the draft can make the fire do the same. With a wood fire, possibly, but coal fires react much too slowly to draft changes for it to make a difference.
Paul
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14659
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
I agree with how the fire responds, but couldn't a spike yank some hot gases out of the stove that would otherwise radiate some heat to the stove?
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30293
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Maybe, but I don't think any of us are smart enough to calibrate all that. It'd just be guessin. Plus, what good would that knowledge be??????????? As in, it is what it is.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
While it may look like a lot of change on the gauge, those draft pressure differences inside the stove and chimney system are very slight. So slight that you couldn't feel them. However, you can go outside and easily feel the wind that is causing those, which can also be misleading about what affect it is really having inside the stove.
Next time the mano is doing the storm dance, try measuring the temperature difference at the surface of the stove pipe and see how much it shows a change in heat transfer.
Paul
Next time the mano is doing the storm dance, try measuring the temperature difference at the surface of the stove pipe and see how much it shows a change in heat transfer.
Paul
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14659
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
That's what's beautiful about a baro. You don't have to be smart, the baro does the calibrating for you.freetown fred wrote:Maybe, but I don't think any of us are smart enough to calibrate all that. It'd just be guessin. Plus, what good would that knowledge be??????????? As in, it is what it is.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Single wall stove pipe skin temps can show changes in flue gas heat transfer fairly quickly.
If the wind gusts were having much affect on heat transfer to be concerned about, you should be able to see the affect of it at the pipe surface using an IR gun.
When it's really gusting and the mano is dancing, using my IR gun I've never seen the pipe skin temp readings show a more than the usual variation of a couple of degrees F, plus or minus.
Keep in mind that while a mano is very useful, it is only showing part of the picture.
Paul
If the wind gusts were having much affect on heat transfer to be concerned about, you should be able to see the affect of it at the pipe surface using an IR gun.
When it's really gusting and the mano is dancing, using my IR gun I've never seen the pipe skin temp readings show a more than the usual variation of a couple of degrees F, plus or minus.
Keep in mind that while a mano is very useful, it is only showing part of the picture.
Paul
- windyhill4.2
- Member
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
You non-believers of a baro can argue all you want against the benefits of a baro..
A windy day like we are currently having here,20 mph constant wind with gusts up to 45-50 mph will make anyone a believer in the benefits of a baro.... if they have any brains
My baro can't even keep after with these winds,even with the baro doing it's best my stove still fires harder with the normal setting.
Baro on hand fed stove with no bi-metallic air damper = easy control.
A windy day like we are currently having here,20 mph constant wind with gusts up to 45-50 mph will make anyone a believer in the benefits of a baro.... if they have any brains
My baro can't even keep after with these winds,even with the baro doing it's best my stove still fires harder with the normal setting.
Baro on hand fed stove with no bi-metallic air damper = easy control.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
So people were stupid before baros came along ? Or did they just get stupid and forget how to build stoves and chimneys that worked fine without need of a baro ?windyhill4.2 wrote:You non-believers of a baro can argue all you want against the benefits of a baro..
A windy day like we are currently having here,20 mph constant wind with gusts up to 45-50 mph will make anyone a believer in the benefits of a baro.... if they have any brains
My baro can't even keep after with these winds,even with the baro doing it's best my stove still fires harder with the normal setting.
Baro on hand fed stove with no bi-metallic air damper = easy control.
Paul
- tcalo
- Member
- Posts: 2068
- Joined: Tue. Dec. 13, 2011 4:57 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40
- Coal Size/Type: Nut/stove anthracite
Antique stoves were designed with features to help maintain a steady draft, long before the barometric damper came about. Features such as manual check dampers on the rear elbow and internal check dampers on suspended pot stoves, not to mention manual pipe dampers in the flue. Our ancestors were smart folks. This isn't to say that the baro is useless, I think it's a great piece of equipment! In fact I plan on putting it back on, just after the stove cools down a bit. I'm afraid my cats are going to get sucked into the stove if they get too close...
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
The longer flue paths in many older stoves not only adds resistance to slow the hot gases down to transfer more of their heat it, also reduces the affect that wind gusts can have on a stove.
On a windy night, candle flames flicker in my drafty, leaky old Victorian home, but it doesn't bother the coal stove because of the long flues inside the stove, plus being able to produce a lot of heat output with fairly small primary and MPD openings and having a tall, good drafting chimney that is well clear of any wind turbulence near the roof.
If you've ever used one of those antique punched tin candle lanterns on a windy night you'd see the similar affect - all those tiny holes make it so that they are impossible to blow the candle out, yet there are enough holes to throw a surprising amount of light.
The old timers seem to have done well knowing what worked best with coal. And a few generations after coal fell out of favor we seem to have forgotten much of it.
Paul
On a windy night, candle flames flicker in my drafty, leaky old Victorian home, but it doesn't bother the coal stove because of the long flues inside the stove, plus being able to produce a lot of heat output with fairly small primary and MPD openings and having a tall, good drafting chimney that is well clear of any wind turbulence near the roof.
If you've ever used one of those antique punched tin candle lanterns on a windy night you'd see the similar affect - all those tiny holes make it so that they are impossible to blow the candle out, yet there are enough holes to throw a surprising amount of light.
The old timers seem to have done well knowing what worked best with coal. And a few generations after coal fell out of favor we seem to have forgotten much of it.
Paul