PP Stewart No 14

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wsherrick
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Post Fri. Feb. 28, 2014 12:21 am

Congratulations. This is an excellent, excellent stove. It is also rather rare. It dates somewhere from the late 1890's to around 1900 or so. Maybe Emery can date it more exactly for you.


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scalabro
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Post Sun. Mar. 02, 2014 1:00 pm

kstone wrote:look like nice stove does it have the back pipe or is it full base burner?
Hi Kstone,

I must correct an error I posted earlier. Upon disassembly of the stove I have learned the difference between a base burner/heater and a FULL base burner/heater. This stove is NOT a full base burner. In other words exhaust gasses do not travel under the ash pan in this stove. They only travel down the sides of the base and then turn towards the rear of the stove then up and out the back pipe.

This is the reason the ash clean out doors are on either side of the base.

My Crawfords base pan has the gasses travel down the sides of the base then turn and go under the the ash pan, then turn again towards the rear of the stove, then up and out the back pipe.

My understanding of it is that the full base burner/heater would heat the floors more than a base heater/burner in addition to being more efficient.

I have seen that a Magee Crown stove is a FULL baseburner/heater as well.

I think, any suspended fire pot, anthracite only cylinder stove that has the ash clean out door underneath the ashpan, is a FULL base burner/heater. If I am in error I hope that someone more knowledgeable will correct me on this point.

Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers,
Scott

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Post Sun. Mar. 02, 2014 1:23 pm

I believe you got it. and you are correct about the magee I have a magee110 complete all apart need s only all sheetmetal for 400.00 you could ad It to your collection 5087638941

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scalabro
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Post Fri. Mar. 07, 2014 2:58 pm

While disassembling the Stewart today I found what appears to be a casting date on the base/foot assembly.

What do the experts think, did I happen upon a stove that was cast in 1891?

All the parts are going to get stripped in a homemade electrolysis bath in my shop so as not to diminish the details of the castings. If I find more "dates" I'll post pics.

Right now I have a big grin !!!
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Post Fri. Mar. 07, 2014 3:15 pm

I would say that is the build date.

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Post Fri. Mar. 07, 2014 3:31 pm

Very likely that's the date. If you can find other castings with all four year numbers then you'll know for certain.

The fact that it's slightly askew and a different size font then the "PPS 14" makes me think even more likely that it's the casting year.

On some castings from foundry work of that era, and later, I've seen the part number was obviously built permanently into the pattern. But, like on your piece, it could also be seen that the casting date numbers were a separate piece added to that pattern just before molding.

On some very detailed aluminum castings you can even see the heads of tacks used to hold the date plate on the wooden patterns.

Paul

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scalabro
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Post Fri. Mar. 07, 2014 3:37 pm

:shots: :junmp: :rofl: :wine:

Paul & Mark.....the only casting dates so far have been found on the leg assy. The rest of the parts are really filthy, I'll clean them soon enough though.

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Post Sat. Mar. 08, 2014 1:25 am

I think it is pretty safe to say it was made during the 1890's.


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scalabro
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Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 1:02 pm

I cleaned all the castings with a welding slag brush today to look for more "dates" not one was seen.

I guess at least the legs were cast in 1891, LOL!

Another tidbit is that on the Crwaford 2 the back pipe has to be custom fabricated due to its oddball size oval. This stoves back pipe can be bought "off the shelf" as a standard 6 inch stove pipe, and can be hand "ovalized" to fit perfectly as shown. Perhaps because the fire pot is larger than the Crawford 2 and therefore requires a larger back pipe? This stove also has a 6 inch base heat damper valve unlike the Crawford 2's 5 inch one.

I wonder if other larger stoves share this trait?

I am going to have a 36 inch barrel made to match the back pipe. The one that was on the stove is 30 inches.

More to come.

Cheers,
Scott
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Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 7:44 am

Gekko wrote: ............................

Another tidbit is that on the Crwaford 2 the back pipe has to be custom fabricated due to its oddball size oval. This stoves back pipe can be bought "off the shelf" as a standard 6 inch stove pipe, and can be hand "ovalized" to fit perfectly as shown. Perhaps because the fire pot is larger than the Crawford 2 and therefore requires a larger back pipe? This stove also has a 6 inch base heat damper valve unlike the Crawford 2's 5 inch one.
........................................
Depending on model size, the Glenwood Modern Oaks have different length back pipes. Plus, going by examples of the smaller models shown on this forum, the 118 (the largest model) is the only one with a six inch diameter back pipe.

Paul

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Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:08 am

What a great piece of history. I cannot wait to see this completed.

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Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:16 am

BPatrick wrote:What a great piece of history. I cannot wait to see this completed.
Yup !

And I don't know of an earlier base heater that's been covered on here. If it is the earliest, it'll be interesting to see how it compares with the 15-20 year later models .

Paul

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Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 4:08 pm

Paul, I'm curious how the exhaust gases travel. Is there an inner barrel and what is the exact path. It seems to me that they are on the verge of perfecting this type of design even back then.

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Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 4:38 pm

Brian,

Look inside the load door on your 40.

You will see the top of the bricks, in base mode with the upper damper closed, the gasses turn 180* and travel down toward the base between the barrel and the suspended firepot. Then they travel down the sides of the base. In your case your 40 is I believe a "Full" base heater, they then turn 90* and go under the ashpan, then turn 90* again and go towards the rear of the stove where the turn 90* once more and go up and out the back pipe.

This stove does not route hot gasses beneath the ashpan, only down the sides of the base.

I do not believe it will be as efficient as an equivalent size Crawford, like a 3/30, but I'm no expert.

I'll post up some pics of the stove apart so you can try to visualize the gaspath.

This picture shows and externally bypassed base heater, the difference being the exhaust gasses go outside the stove before reaching the base. This is important however because this style does not insulate the firepot with hot gas like on your 40.
Hope this helps.

As I am only a "Padawan" it is my humble request that if I have posted an error, Obi Wan or Yoda will correct me. :doh:

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Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 5:04 pm

BPatrick wrote:Paul, I'm curious how the exhaust gases travel. Is there an inner barrel and what is the exact path. It seems to me that they are on the verge of perfecting this type of design even back then.
BP,

If you mean the Glenwood Modern Oaks with the optional back pipe, ......

No outer barrel or suspended pot. The outside of the firepot is what you see below the lower set of nickel plated skirt pieces and above the ash drawer/grate casting.

The exhaust gases go out a pipe collar at the back upper part of the barrel, a bit higher up then they do on the Glenwood base heaters. The flue gases can either travel through the open pipe damper straight to the stack in direct mode, or, in indirect mode, . . .

The back pipe has a vertical cast iron divider that separates the front half of the pipe from the back half with a rectangular damper near the top of it. The divider has a semi -circular gap in the bottom edge that the outer edges of rest in slots in the base casting.

With the back pipe damper closed (indirect mode), . . the flue gases must travel down the front half of the back pipe, then make a 180 degree turn through that semi-circular gap and the base support casting, then travel up the back side of the pipe and on out to the stack.

The back pipe support casting bolted onto the back of the ash drawer is only for support. It does not have any opening into the stove's base.

There is no flue chamber under the ash drawer area like the base heaters have. The bottom pan of the stove is the bottom of the ash drawer.

The two pictures show my 118 ash drawer on it's sides. The back pipe base support casting, with it's oval opening, can be seen bolted to the rear. What you can't see is how that casting is blocked off from the ash drawer area it bolts to.

The casting has a small clean out door on the rear side, but it's so small that I think I'd have to use a soup spoon to get any fly ash out. :D

Paul
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