Coalpail.com Forum

As promised, here are the latest pictures of my Hub Heater 115 Circulator. I picked it up from Emery a few weeks ago, and I've been studying what I needed for the install. I was lucky and found a 6" oval to round adapter at my local hardware store. I had asked Emery to supply me one, but it was way too long. I wanted to have both an MPD and a Baro, which I've been using on my City Glenwood, with success. I'm still figuring out the Glenwood, which is a draw grate.

The Hub is replacing my 2nd Grand Godin, which is about an easy a stove to operate as possible. It's really hard to loose a fire in the Godins. Unfortunately I've lost the fire in the Glenwood a number of times, as it burns hot, even with the MPD. I wish Emery had finished the HUB before the really cold weather as there is definitely a learning curve with these. It's funny, but I'm finding it a little hard to get the fire fully ignited in the Hub. I know I have an excellent draft, as the Godin would pull very strong, unless the stack temperature dropped. Sometimes I would have to throw in a small log to heat up the stainless flu, which would work.

To get a good fully ignited bed of coals, I have the stove in direct draft, with the bottom dampers open, as well as the secondary draft. When set, I back off the dampers and switch to indirect draft. My problem comes when I sprinkle on some nugget. It just sits on the fire, and takes quite a while to ignite, especially at the back of the fire. Maybe this is normal for a really efficient stove - I'm used to the Godins, which burned hot, since they leaked air. Consequently, they used way too much coal, and had too short a burn time between loads. Anyone have an idea how long a burn time should I get with a load (bucket)?

Emery and Brandon tested it, and were very satisfied (I'll call Emery/Brandon, if necessary).

Anyone have any ideas? Should I try stove coal?

Any help will be greatly appreciated - Chris

Here are some pics:

Very, very nice.
Now, take some aluminum foil and cover up the Barometric Damper and see what happens. Then report back.
These stoves operate much differently than a direct draft stove. A Barometric Damper may impede performance. While operating with indirect draft your stack temperatures will be very cool. You will get the hang of it, and don't worry you are going to get some more Arctic weather in the next few weeks as well.

What a beauty! She's a real sweetheart. Thanks for showing us.

One thing.... the barometric damper should be level across it's face. The face & the hinges both call to be level.

Well, I got up at 2AM, and the fire was out, leaving lots of unburned coal - some of which had fallen into the base.

Very disappointing! I'm going to cover the Baro with tin foil, and buy a couple of bags of stove coal this morning.

Hopefully that will help, but the baro was closed during operation yesterday, so I'm not sure if that's a problem.

I really didn't want to be running in a new stove mid season - what a pain - especially with -10 coming mid week.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed - Chris

That's a real looker! When you reload do you put the stove in direct draft and open the air vents to liven up fire? Possibly a shake is needed before reload I've never had the pleasure of running a base heater. I would move the baro as well like Freddy said. Good luck , the stove size coal may help.

Beautiful stove. It should crank out the heat. My first thought was same as Williams. I question the need for the baro in that installation.

Considering most baros don't seal very well, being closed, it could still leak enough air into the pipe, slowly cooling off the draft and progressively slow the fire down until it quits. Doesn't take much air leaking in to have the stove snow ball to a stop over a few hours time.

I'd also double check to make sure there aren't any other places air could leak into the pipe.

If that's not it, it may be your long-term settings. What are your primary, secondary, and MPD damper settings whenever the stove goes out ?

Paul

Thanks for your ideas guys - I appreciate your help.

I'm going to cut another pipe, remove the baro this morning, and try some stove size coal. Having lots of unburnt nugget fall through the prismatic grates really ticks me off. I don't enjoy putting on vinyl gloves and picking coal out of the ash! Larger chunks should also aid airflow through the grates. That's what Brandon was recommending for the Crawford BH's, as they were sluggish in the showroom with nugget.

Last night the primary dampers were open, the secondary (loading door) was closed, the stove was in direct draft, the MPD was wide open and the baro was closed. Also - yes, I did go into direct draft and open the dampers when I added coal - didn't help.

Hopefully later today I'll get improvement.

Chris

Unfortunately, stove coal's not available in my area (western NH) right now, so that's out - darn!

Chris

chrisbuick wrote:
Last night the primary dampers were open, the secondary (loading door) was closed, the stove was in direct draft, the MPD was wide open and the baro was closed. Also - yes, I did go into direct draft and open the dampers when I added coal - didn't help.

Hopefully later today I'll get improvement.

Chris

If Emery found it sluggish, stove coal should help. I've got the same problem - no stove coal. But when I want the stove to respond quickly and turn out a lot of heat, I sort out the larger pieces and use those. You could try that just as a one-fill experiment to see if it helps.

Some other things.

If the primary and MPD are open all the way, . . and the stove is in indirect draft, all night , that may be a big part of your problem. The stove will burn up the fuel quickly. And I'm just guessing here, but it likely will burn incompletely too ?????

After you get the coal well burning, try it with the primary partly open, secondary closed, stove in indirect draft and MPD at about 45 degree angle. That should help slow down the stove to get the most heat out of the coal and allow it all to burn completely.

You may want to stick with the first rule of trouble-shooting - "Only make one change at a time and then run a test". That way, you'll know if what you change actually is making a change in stove performance, or not.

Paul

Thanks Sunny Boy - GREAT ideas - I'll give them all try, including sorting my nugget for big chunks.

Emery and I were discussing the Crawford base heaters as being sluggish in his setup. They both raved about my Hub Heater, which makes me assume it's related to my install.

I've bought my coal this season from Greg at Black Rock Coal - East Montpelier VT. There nugget is pristine and LARGE in size, so it shouldn't be hard.

Will advise - Chris

Be patient, you will learn the stove. Shaking the grates is also a learning process. You don't need to shake them very much or very hard. And yes, stove coal works extremely well in these stoves. My Glenwood loves it.
Try leaving a thin ash layer on the grates at all times. This will stop small pieces of coal from falling out. These stoves breathe a lot easier than the tall, narrow stoves and therefore some ash on the grates won't hurt it and may be what it needs. You just need to find out how much the stove wants.
When you load up the fire pot, leave the stove in direct draft and the primaries open until the stove gets to around 300 degrees on the barrel. Then first close the primary dampers to where you want them, then set the indirect damper, then last of all set the pipe damper.
Learn which setting on the secondary damper will allow the blue flames to start up well and leave it there. After the fire is established see if you should totally close the secondary damper or leave it open just a tiny bit.
I know this sounds like a lot of things to do, but; it's not really. Pretty soon all of this will become second nature.

Oh and one more thing. You should have two thermometers. One on the stove and one on the pipe about 2 feet away. With these you can see the effects of your damper settings.

Looks almost identical to my 215 Hub heater.

I'd scratch the MPD. And close the damper on the loading door.

For temps in the 20-30's, I run mine with the MPD wide open, underfire air usually wide open, indirect mode, secondary air closed (on the door) and adjust the damper between the ash box and back pipe to control the draft.

That little damper between the ash pit and back pipe makes a huge difference, just a 1/8" move is very noticable.

If the temps are above freezing, I start to close the underfire air dampers. I still use the backpipe to ash pit damper to help get the draft going when loading. Close it to increase draft, open it for a long burn.

Going from direct to indirect is something that I only do when lighting the fire or if it's really low and I'm trying to revive it.

My temps are 5-600 at the hottest spot on the barrel, and 100-140 at the stove pipe at the wall. Usually cool enough to lay my hand on it.

I don't have anything to compare to, but it does take a while to get the fire going. Often over an hour. I think the draft is so low since it's that efficient that it takes a little while to get the draft back up again after loading.

I can usually get 10-12hrs off a hod of nut coal without issue. That's burning pretty hot too. I've also idled it for 48hrs on one load and had a roaring fire within an hour of waking it up too.

It's taken me a good 2-3 seasons to learn how to burn good. But this was the first coal stove I've had.

Thanks Oros35 - Nice to hear from you again - I appreciate your direct experience - these stoves are rare.

Brandon only told me the lower pull lever was a bypass, which would slow down the fire if it got away from you.

I've got to study your reply, since it's so full of great info.

Thanks again - Chris

The lower lever in the back of the stove is the check damper. Make sure it is closed unless you want to use it. If you want to run a cooler fire for a long time you can open the check damper and it will cut some of the draft from the fire.
A really neat thing about these check dampers is they really help keep the house clean. Open the check damper when you are shaking the fire and the dust gets pulled up the chimney.

As always, thanks for your thoughts William - unfortunately, exhaustion has set in - I'm running three different stoves right now, and I'm still getting the Glenwood down.

I've gotten a lot of advise on the secondary damper. Brandon told me that door dampers slow down the fire. Right now, I can't tell what it does - too many options to track - but as you say, I'll get it all down, with patience.

I just want heat, especially after all I have been through to get this stove, and have it done. I chased it down off eBay in the Catskills last Spring, brought it to Emery in early June, but he didn't complete it till mid December. It was worth the wait!

I'll keep plugging away - Chris