Empire # 12 Stove O.G. Thomas Taunton, Mass.

PC 12-47E · Post by **PC 12-47E** » Sat. Oct. 22, 2011 8:02 am

I drove over to centeral New Hampshire to take a look at this stove yesterday. I have lots of pics...
Lets see what William can tell us about this stove. It is not a base burner.

Eddie

SteveZee · Post by **SteveZee** » Sat. Oct. 22, 2011 9:41 am

That is an Empire Herald a kissin cousin to my Star Herald.
It's down in the middle range (of the stoves they offered) and a direct brother to the Model Herald, The Home Herald and the Rival Herald. It's got the optional indirect back pipe which makes it a pretty effective coal burner. It came in 10", 12" and 14" firepot sizes. That looks like a 10" from here.

grizzly2 · Post by **grizzly2** » Sat. Oct. 22, 2011 8:22 pm

Looks like a wothwile restoration project to me. That old stove is still beautiful even in the condition it is in.

nortcan · Post by **nortcan** » Sat. Oct. 22, 2011 8:25 pm

Yes that stove looks to be a great project. Seems to be a tall stove, did you got the size?

echos67 · Post by **echos67** » Sat. Oct. 22, 2011 9:53 pm

The first picture shows a 12 just under the door.

I need some help here,
Eddie you say it is not a baseburner, but yet it has a indirect backpipe as the pictures show and as Steve refers to. My question is, in order to be a basebuner the stove has to have a indirect backpipe that is divertered to inside the one side of the base and back out the other side to continue back up and out the flue ?
If thats the case I can not consider everything with a backpipe a baseburner ?

Eddie and Steve, Emery really thinks highly of those Herald's, he convinced me not to rule them out by any means.

Nice stove and what is the lentgh of the steel chamber ?

SteveZee · Post by **SteveZee** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 8:12 am

Keith,

They are a fine stove and Emery would know since he has his choice of whatever stove he wants to use. He has a Herald baseheater in his home.
They were manufactured in Taunton, Mass, right next door to the Glenwood (Weir) foundry. No Keith the presence of an indirect back pipe does not always mean the stove is a baseburner. You would have to look inside and see a slotted ring around the top of the firepot. The firepot is somewhat suspended and some of the gasses with be pulled down and under the pot and out up the backpipe. A Baseheater on the other hand, has a double bottom and an actual damper valve to direct the flow down and through that double bottom chamber.
Baseheater's were the top of the line. Baseburner's were next and then stoves with the indirect back pipe 3rd, followed by oak stoves (direct draft). This was the heirarchy in the catalogue, price wise, and of course each had several sizes and options. This Empire Herald 12 is a 10" firepot with indirect back pipe option. It's a fine anthracite burner and will make someone a great stove. It's very similar to my Star Herald but with the sloped base like the Model, Home, and Rival Heralds. Mine is the square base like the Our, (baseheater), the Ruby (baseburner) Heralds. Sorry lol, prolly more info than you needed

.

echos67 · Post by **echos67** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 8:48 am

SteveZee wrote:Keith,

They are a fine stove and Emery would know since he has his choice of whatever stove he wants to use. He has a Herald baseheater in his home.
They were manufactured in Taunton, Mass, right next door to the Glenwood (Weir) foundry. No Keith the presence of an indirect back pipe does not always mean the stove is a baseburner. You would have to look inside and see a slotted ring around the top of the firepot. The firepot is somewhat suspended and some of the gasses with be pulled down and under the pot and out up the backpipe. A Baseheater on the other hand, has a double bottom and an actual damper valve to direct the flow down and through that double bottom chamber.
Baseheater's were the top of the line. Baseburner's were next and then stoves with the indirect back pipe 3rd, followed by oak stoves (direct draft). This was the heirarchy in the catalogue, price wise, and of course each had several sizes and options. This Empire Herald 12 is a 10" firepot with indirect back pipe option. It's a fine anthracite burner and will make someone a great stove. It's very similar to my Star Herald but with the sloped base like the Model, Home, and Rival Heralds. Mine is the square base like the Our, (baseheater), the Ruby (baseburner) Heralds. Sorry lol, prolly more info than you needed .

Thanks Steve, I have some more questions but don't want to cloud up this thread with them, so I will do some research and see if I can find the answers. Not too much info at all thanks for the education.
Keith

dlj · Post by **dlj** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 9:12 am

echos67 wrote: Thanks Steve, I have some more questions but don't want to cloud up this thread with them, so I will do some research and see if I can find the answers. Not too much info at all thanks for the education.
Keith

Dude, not to worry about "cloud up this thread".... Go take a look at some of these threads - Nortcan has one that's approaching 50 pages of posts at this point... Of course, I think he has the record at the moment... LOL

dj

SMITTY · Post by **SMITTY** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 11:02 am

Yeah actually clouding up the thread is a good thing. Makes it easier for the next guy to find all the info about a specific stove all in one shot.

echos67 · Post by **echos67** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 6:23 pm

Questions below in red,

SteveZee wrote:Keith,

They are a fine stove and Emery would know since he has his choice of whatever stove he wants to use. He has a Herald baseheater in his home.
They were manufactured in Taunton, Mass, right next door to the Glenwood (Weir) foundry. No Keith the presence of an indirect back pipe does not always mean the stove is a baseburner. You would have to look inside and see a slotted ring around the top of the firepot. The firepot is somewhat suspended and some of the gasses with be pulled down and under the pot and out up the backpipe. What is the purpose of this ? My guess is that it burns the gasses emitted from the coal therefore you get more heat from the same amount of fuel ? So basically a baseburner has a 2 into 1 exhaust ? Can you tell my gearhead mentallity is showing lol. A Baseheater on the other hand, has a double bottom and an actual damper valve to direct the flow down and through that double bottom chamber. This I think I understand, if in baseheater mode the heated exhaust is sent to the base where the stove can then radiate more heat that it recieved from the hot exhaust into the house ?
Baseheater's were the top of the line. Baseburner's were next and then stoves with the indirect back pipe 3rd, followed by oak stoves (direct draft). This was the heirarchy in the catalogue, price wise, and of course each had several sizes and options. This Empire Herald 12 is a 10" firepot with indirect back pipe option. It's a fine anthracite burner and will make someone a great stove. It's very similar to my Star Herald but with the sloped base like the Model, Home, and Rival Heralds. Mine is the square base like the Our, (baseheater), the Ruby (baseburner) Heralds. Sorry lol, prolly more info than you needed .

SteveZee · Post by **SteveZee** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 7:17 pm

Keith,

The Baseheater you got down. The Baseburner, with the suspended firepot and the ring round the top is slotted and actally sucks some of the exhaust down the walls between the firepot and stove base and then out to the backpipe. It's all about lengthening the flame/exhaust path. How much heat can I keep in the stove (and space) and avoid going out the chimney. It's why you see the mag thermometers on the top of the barrel and another on the stack just before the thimble. The more efficient the stove, the higher the temp disparity between the two. Hope that helps.

Post by **franco b** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 9:16 pm

Another advantage of the above configuration is that it greatly lessens any heat loss from the fire pot making it burn more uniformly and efficiently. It stops the fire pot from becoming part of the heat exchange and robbing heat from the wrong place.

smithy · Post by **smithy** » Sun. Oct. 23, 2011 9:59 pm

I must say the people of this forum are really cool you don't know how many times I have been ripped for asking questions.At this fourm they kindly respond with an answer or many instead of the proverbial "USE THE SEARCH BAR... DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK " I don't know about anyone else but my mind has to have the answers over and over or I can't remember. Sorry to get off subject bur I've wanted to say that for a long time

echos67 · Post by **echos67** » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 7:21 am

smithy wrote:I must say the people of this forum are really cool you don't know how many times I have been ripped for asking questions.At this fourm they kindly respond with an answer or many instead of the proverbial "USE THE SEARCH BAR... DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK " I don't know about anyone else but my mind has to have the answers over and over or I can't remember. Sorry to get off subject bur I've wanted to say that for a long time

Very true Smithy, I usually don't comminicate on websites but this one has been very helpful. I hope to pay it forward someday when I learn more.

Steve, Franco, I understand now, also I was on the web site Stovehospital and Emery gives a good description of how it works as well. I read where Will has discussed it as well when I was looking up a "Our Glenwood 111" Stove.
Keith

SteveZee · Post by **SteveZee** » Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 7:57 am

franco b wrote:Another advantage of the above configuration is that it greatly lessens any heat loss from the fire pot making it burn more uniformly and efficiently. It stops the fire pot from becoming part of the heat exchange and robbing heat from the wrong place.

That is an excellent point Franco and makes perfect sense. You really start to see how this period of stove designers really had it down. The turn of the century (18 to 19) and into the 20 truely was the zenith of coal burning technology.

Smithy, The way I see it, the exchange of knowledge is what this or any other forum is truely about. Yes there is some social aspects because people of like minds congregate because we are social animals. But, I too get peeved at the ones who, rather than being helpful, seem to want to assume some pecking order or just be rude. I'm sure I've asked plenty of dumb questions in my time and/or asked what others thought was rudamentary info. Why have a forum about any subject if you aren't will to share whaever its is that you know? I see this as being helpful and as Keith said "paying it forward" if you will.

Empire # 12 Stove O.G. Thomas Taunton, Mass.

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