Just another GW #6

 
KingCoal
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Mon. Apr. 02, 2018 12:58 pm

very nice. i was also fascinated by this activity and watched it regularly in T.O.M. after installing the ring it that stove.


 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Mon. Apr. 02, 2018 4:11 pm

Cool. Pictures reminds me of Aurora Borealis.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Apr. 03, 2018 10:03 am

I just opened my first electric bill since starting the #6 back on Feb 1st. It's down $506.00 for that billing month just on the electric heat part. And my electric rate was $0.059 KWH during that month. Nothing different done with how I was running the range, or using other electric, so any savings is thanks to the #6. And no matter how low the OAT got the oil burner never kicked on. Just the electric plenum was enough to handle any supplementary heat needed when it got bitter cold.

During that time it was using about 70 lbs. of nut coal a day. I paid .13 cents a lb. for coal, so it used about $275.00 worth of coal. A savings of $231.00 for that month. Another heating season with savings like that and the stove will have paid for itself. :D

Paul

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Tue. Apr. 03, 2018 6:42 pm

Electric plenum furnace. Never heard of one. I know an oil fired burner is electrically run through the thermostat, igniters, and motor driving the pump, and I've heard of electric baseboard heaters, but can't say I know what an "electric plenum" is.
But we're glad to hear your report on your savings Paul. Are you gunna put the money into some clean burnin anthy, or save up for "another" 'Coupe DeVille?

 
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Sunny Boy
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Apr. 03, 2018 9:34 pm

joeq wrote:
Tue. Apr. 03, 2018 6:42 pm
Electric plenum furnace. Never heard of one. I know an oil fired burner is electrically run through the thermostat, igniters, and motor driving the pump, and I've heard of electric baseboard heaters, but can't say I know what an "electric plenum" is.
But we're glad to hear your report on your savings Paul. Are you gunna put the money into some clean burnin anthy, or save up for "another" 'Coupe DeVille?

Joe,
The plenum heater is just a section of electric heating coils that gets fitted into the sheet metal plenum of the oil burner's hot air outlet. http://www.electromn.com/res/html/upflow.htm

No three phase power here, so mine is just the 51K BTU, 15kw unit, which doesn't have enough BTU output to heat the house by itself in the coldest weather. Comes with controls that make it switch to the oil burner after a certain time of running and the electric heat is not able to raise the house temps up to the wall thermostat set point. Once it reaches the set point, it automatically switches back to electric heat again. Electric heat is much cheaper than oil here, but coal is even cheaper and works during power outages.

Paul

 
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Sunny Boy
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Apr. 18, 2018 11:45 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
Mon. Apr. 02, 2018 10:55 am
Ever since seeing William's picture of the gas ring jets in his #6, I've been fascinated by the idea of how the gas ring adds to the efficiency by helping to burn off CO that otherwise would go up the stack.

But, it's been tough to get clear pictures of the gas jets coming off the holes in the gas ring surrounding the top of the firepot. Depending on the firebed level they don't always stay "on" constantly. Most of the time they "puff" on as the flames flicker on/off over the firebed.

Last night, they were staying on steadily about a half hour after loading up with some two year old Tractor Supply Kimmels nut that I'm using up. Mostly on the right side because the left side was not yet burning to the blue ladies stage.

The dark vertical area in the middle of the pictures is the magazine. ...which makes it even tougher to see them because it blocks the view of many of the holes in the back where the gasses are drawn to the barrel exit opening.

Enjoy.

Paul
After last night's refilling the mag and clearing ash, the gas ring jets were really going strong. I was able to get a clearer picture, which shows four of the jets on the right side. All with flames that reach nearly to the magazine tube above the center of the firebed.

Some more observations of the #6.

The mag has made life far easier, faster and cleaner, during reloading time. But, I'm spoiled by the range's shallower firebox that does not bridge like the #6 far deeper firepot does. It's taken me awhile to learn how best to deal with that during ash asking time - which is now the biggest part of using the #6 - just the opposite of the refuel and ash shaking times of the range.

Something else I've observed. I've long suspected that the range's long flues and greater surface area give it an edge over base heaters for heat extraction.

With it's firepot able to hold 50 bs. of nut coal, the #6 has twice the firepot capacity of my small-ish Glenwood kitchen range, but it's turning out that it does not have twice the heat output of the range.

With the range filled and dampered down, it can extract so much heat before the stove pipe that it will easily cruise all night at .005 mano reading and the pipe two feet above the stove collar has surface temps of only 100F to 105F.

The #6 is on an inside brick chimney that is just as tall as the outside chimney for the range, but if I try to idle it down that low it does not put out as much heat as the range. The same distance pipe temps stay higher at low mano readings because of it extracting less heat before the pipe. With both running about .04, both put out lots of heat, but the range will cook us out of the kitchen if we don't open the back door. The trade off is that at that mano rate, I have to refuel the range about every 5-6 hours, but only about 12 hours before needing to refill the magazine in the #6.

So it's clear that the main advantage of the #6 is that it is purpose built to easily run twice as long as the range while heating close to the same area. Whereas the range is not really designed to heat a house, but to have a shallow firebed that responds more quickly to heat changes needed during cooking, baking, and heating 4+ gallons in the water tank. It's just the range having so much surface area needed to do it's purpose is what makes it a good base heater for it's size.

In a perfect world,...... I'd love to have a range with a bigger firebox. Then it might outdo the base heater at being a base heater. :D

Anyway, I love having both, as many old houses had. Not just for my love of tinkering and testing comparisons, but because each has it's specialty that works very well. I can see why a range at one end, and a parlor stove at the other, were such a common pairing in many of these old houses. ;)

Paul

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joeq
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Post by joeq » Wed. Apr. 18, 2018 7:11 pm

Good shot of your ring in action Paul. Does the entire ring burn evenly as in the photo, or are the gasses dispersed independently/inconsistently along the barrel?
I could see a couple stoves placed as you mentioned at each end of the older houses, but if you had a second or third story, I'll bet some found there way upstairs too, like in Wilsons house. I wish I had my stove situation a little different, and was able to have a set-up like you mentioned Paul. With 2 stoves. If I had a range like yours in my kitchen, and my G111 placed in the middle wall of my living room, (below the up-stairs stairwell), then I think my heat distribution would be much more centralized, and 2 would work well. "Should-a, could-a would-a", you know how that goes.
And maybe your range won't run as long as your G6, but because you spend more time around the range, (for more than just heat), I'm sure you're better able to keep tabs on tending.
I still think the optimum stove set-up, would be a pit under the ash-pan, to just dump it all down there, and worry about the pile after the winter. :yes:


 
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Sunny Boy
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Apr. 18, 2018 8:59 pm

Joe,

Before I put in the mag the gas jets were more uniform, but now they aren't always the same intensity. Often only some of the holes on one side lights up.

Because of how the coal chunks come out of the mag, the firebed is not always as evenly leveled as it would be if you hand shoveled the coal. Plus, my learning curve dealing with the ash bridging, and my ash clearing skills are not helping with an even airflow through the firebed....yet. :oops:

I've had 13 long winters to learn how to operate the range, but just over two months using the #6. The shallow firebox of the range is very easy to deal with ash. The #6 is more of a challenge, but, it is getting easier as I've been learning what works best. ;)

Paul

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Apr. 18, 2018 9:08 pm

just curious, is there a chance that the need for "more power scottie" mode while the section of the house the #6 is in is single clad and uninsulated being more of a factor in the bridging than de-ash and shaking technique ?

i've been trying to find references to this in other #6 and #8 threads with out any luck.

thanks,
steve

 
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Sunny Boy
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Apr. 18, 2018 9:23 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Wed. Apr. 18, 2018 9:08 pm
just curious, is there a chance that the need for "more power scottie" mode while the section of the house the #6 is in is single clad and uninsulated being more of a factor in the bridging than de-ash and shaking technique ?

i've been trying to find references to this in other #6 and #8 threads with out any luck.

thanks,
steve
Steve,
I haven't run it maximum warp speed yet :D

Nothing ever gets hot enough to show even a dull red glow in a dark room.

I check the barrel temps with an ID gun and the top of the barrel stays in the upper 400F range . Just a few inches above the firepot, the barrel temps are in the mid to upper 500F.

I think it's partly coal related. Now that I'm using much more coal, I'm digging down through layers of different year leftover deliveries still in the coal bin. Some of the coal does not show as much tendency to bridge.

Paul

 
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Sunny Boy
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 2:05 pm

With my range, and now the magazine in the #6, I don't need to put gloves on each time I reload and shake ash. However, one of the problems of the #6 is the very short lever for the direct/indirect damper. It gets VERY hot and because it's so short it's not easy to push it back into position with the poker without it slipping and bouncing back to the direct draft position.

Back when I was making stainless steel pokers and towel drying rods, I ordered nickel-plated coil wire handles from this company. http://www.centuryspring.com/stove-handles

I also ordered some of their larger size coils to see about using them to restore lid lifter handles. Turns out that one of those large sizes twists on nice and snug on the end of that #6 damper lever.

Now, no more burnt fingers. And if I use the poker tip to move it, no more slipping off the lever. ;)

Paul

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Keepaeyeonit
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 4:38 pm

Nice idea Paul I like It, Its a must have now :D . Thanks for the PM I'm looking into it. Thanks

 
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Post by franco b » Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Outstanding revue of the magazine and operation of the number 6.

In the comparison of the 6 to the range heat output, did they burn the same coal quantity in 24 hours?

 
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Sunny Boy
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Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 6:05 pm

franco b wrote:
Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 5:26 pm
Outstanding revue of the magazine and operation of the number 6.

In the comparison of the 6 to the range heat output, did they burn the same coal quantity in 24 hours?

No, Richard. The #6 uses more than half again as much coal as the range in 24 hours.

But, evidenced by the #6's higher mano and pipe temp readings with the MPD closed, it sends more of it's heat up the chimney than the range does. There is no way I could damper it down enough to run at .005 mano like the range can and still have the firebed stay hot enough to keep going.

For the BTU output size of it's firebox the range has a far greater heat extraction area before the stove pipe. To equal the ratio of the range's firebox capacity to it's flues surface area, I'd need a #6 with about twice it's flue surface area.

Paul

 
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Sunny Boy
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Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 6:10 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:
Fri. Apr. 20, 2018 4:38 pm
Nice idea Paul I like It, Its a must have now :D . Thanks for the PM I'm looking into it. Thanks
Thanks, K.

Good luck with the pm'd part. As you know it's rare - the first one I've ever seen like that in over ten years of looking.

Paul


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