I need help. New to all this and several problems.

 
Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 2:30 pm

I purchased and installed an Alternate Heating Systems WC70 series multifuel boiler with 8in exhaust for use for hydronic air heaters and utilizing my existing furnace. It’s installed in the basement and it’s a rear feed appliance so I had to 90 up using a clean out tee off the back and adjustable pipe then 90 over using elbow to and through the wall thimble to my external chimney pipe. Stove pipe is Duravent double wall DVL and exterior is Duraplus triple wall. Everything is 8in. Rather than go through my house eaves, I opted for their 30 degree offset. The boiler itself has a Aquastat that controls a variable speed draft assist blower on the bottom of the back and is wired to an in door draft flap actuator. I started burning a locally purchased Ohio lump bit coal but it offered little to no flame and was super dirty and smelled horrible but was easy to start and held heat like crazy. Anytime I opened the door smoke flooded out. After 1 week, the cap was blocked off and shut it all down because cap was glowing red. Brushed it and cleaned the cap and swept the pipes. The stove pipe was dirty with at least an inch of black stalagmite looking buildup all through. The chimney pipe was clean.
Figured my problem was draft since the stove pipe would routinely puff smoke into the basement around every seam including the clean out cap and despite having a shaker grate, I had to shovel out my “ash” because it never turns to ash. It just turns into burned out crusty coal that no longer burns and is light, crispy, and completely non burnable.
So, then I caulked my stove pipe, extended my chimney another 3 feet and installed a Gemi draft inducer fan with variable speed control, a flue pipe thermostat, and bought some highly recommended PA washed bit coal from Russell Brothers figuring all this would solve all problems. (Deep sigh). It did not. I learned to turn up my chimney top Gemi draft inducer fan to setting 3 of 6 and open the door so smoke doesn’t come out but the Russell Brothers coal is harder to light but it flames large and hard and anytime I open the door within 30-60 minutes of adding coal I get the same huge dangerous flaming puff backs I got with the lump coal that have cost me my arm hair and a beard trim. I had to turn the boiler temperature controlled draft fan speed as low as it goes and leave the draft inducer chimney top fan on lowest setting at 1 or all my heat goes right up the chimney and super heats my flue. And now even leaving everything at it’s lowest settings, my flue is getting super hot up to 800 degrees internally according to my probe style flue thermometer causing me to shut down all fans until it drops down low enough, about 4-500. But then it keeps dropping and usually stays in the “bad yellow too cold” zone at about 2-300 degrees. So if I run draft fans on lowest setting or not at all, my coal doesn’t fully burn up or have enough air to create enough heat, and I get monster puff backs when I open the door after loading. If I turn anything up at all all my heat goes up the flue and heats the flue to dangerous levels and still sometimes get puff backs even if my fires raging on hot coals. 90% of the time my flue is running about 2-250 degrees and I can see black ash raining down from my inducer/cap so I believe my flue isn’t burning hot enough to handle the ash and gases most of the time but there seems to be no happy medium. I did accidentally leave the the boiler draft assist fan turned off last night and got the most complete burn of the coal I’ve had yet. Right now I’m running the draft inducer chimney top fan at lowest setting 24/7 but am scared to turn it off since it will flood out smoke if I open the door and probably build blockages and soot in my pipes even faster. If I give any draft from the boiler for the first at least hour after adding fresh coal my flue goes nuclear and all my heat goes up the chimney. If I don’t give any draft from the boiler I have a near death experience from a puffback and fill my house with smoke. What in the heck am I supposed to do or try? Why am I burning so dirty and so cold in my flue? Do I really need to clean my pipes every week? I do have a Dwyer manometer but haven’t installed yet because I’m waiting on the fluid for it. 🙄. Everything seems counter intuitive to me. Thinking I might try cleaning out the pipes tonight but then what?
I would be happy for ANY help/advice or questions and will upload pics of everything tonight.
Last edited by Byron4bushido on Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.


 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 4:43 pm

You have a system where you induce air flow via top chimney fan ? Then when you add coal it burns too fast. That part is not surprising.

That you cannot control the draft, once established, without the fan running is an issue.

You have two 90 degree elbows ? What does the manufacture say about having 2 ?

I have no personal experience with two 90 degree turns .. perhaps others will chime in.

I imagine the "puff backs" are PUFF BACKS, very forceful..very concerning


https://alternateheatingsystems.com/product/woc70/

Looks 3x bigger than my 503 Hitzer so I believe it can kick out some serious BTUs.

That's a big one...256K BTU.

Clearly a draft issue.

 
Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 5:45 pm

Yeah. Since it wasn’t drafting for crap and forcing smoke and gases back down the chimney around the stove seams so bad my thinking was extend it another 3ft and add mechanical, yet adjustable draft. If I didn’t need it, I could always turn it off.
https://gemimarket.us/chimney-fan/207-1281-chimne ... r-25_cm_10

It’s not very shiny now.
When I purchased the boiler from the manufacturer they said having 2 elbows shouldn’t be an issue due to having the forced draft motor on the boiler. My chimney height was questionable, just slightly above the peak before I added the other section and fan to it. And it is super nice to kick it up and have no smoke come out when loading it. Except for the occasional almost dying in a fireball. Currently heating a 2500sq ft house and ran lines to a 1500sqft pole barn and was hoping to heat another 1000sqft pole barn that’s decently insulated. Only have everything hooked up to the house and 1500sqft barn currently but do t have the fan unit on in the pole barn but the circulator out there still runs so it doesn’t freeze.

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Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 5:52 pm

Here’s the setup and a pic of a wheelbarrow of my “ash”. It’s super light and crispy and apparently anything burnable is all burnt off.
Wanted to add a pic of the inside but the coal turns into one big clump and you have to break it up to get flames and more heat and Apparently my wife did that about 10min before I got home because I went to open it and got another puff back. 🤯🤬

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carlherrnstein
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Post by carlherrnstein » Thu. Dec. 22, 2022 10:35 am

That's a quite capable boiler that can supply plenty of heat.

Your chimney situation is less than ideal but it's manageable. I would rather it be straight up however I'm sure there are good reasons for running it like that.

Start your fire on wood, once it's burned down some, add some coal but don't cover the fire over completely (smothering the fire will cause a "puffback" every single time it happens) once the coal catches on fire add some more but again don't cover it over completely or else it will 💥. Keep doing this until there is approximately 5 gallons worth of burning coal. Rake the fire towards the firebox door and start "banking" the fire.

When banking a bit coal fire you make a tapering pile of coal that tapers thinner towards the fire. The fresh coal will catch fire and will burn towards the thicker side of the pile. Banking like this is the only way to operate a hand fed on bituminous coal without living next to it.

Edit: The stuff in the wheelbarrow is called coke it will burn it's the coal vision of charcoal. Don't over shake the fire you have very aggressive shaker grates and you could cause the fire to go out if you overdo it.

 
Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Thu. Dec. 22, 2022 10:49 am

Thanks! I very much appreciate it. I think I’ve been adding too much at once, about two 5gallon buckets morning and night. I’ve been trying to make sure there are open flames but since I don’t have a glass door I can’t see if there’s a fire before I open the door. Even if I look into the ash door it often looks like there is but them BOOM when I open the load door. I think I’m getting the hang of it. In regards to loading anyways. My flue temps are generally always cold and have no idea how to get around that. Flue temps will be good when draft actuator is on or if I crack the secondary air in the ash door a little but then it over fires my boiler temp anytime I leave the secondary air open even a little. Then when the aqua stat closes the draft actuator I lose my flue temp and never get it back. How important is flue temp when burning coal?

 
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carlherrnstein
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Post by carlherrnstein » Thu. Dec. 22, 2022 12:03 pm

When opening the door try opening it maybe an inch or so and let the chimney pull some of the coal gas out before you open it all the way.

Everything you are describing is pointing towards either very poor draft (which the draft inducer should have fixed) or smothering the fire. If I get some time today I will post some diagrams to help explain.


 
Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Thu. Dec. 22, 2022 12:29 pm

Thanks I really appreciate it. This thing has been kicking my butt. I’ve learned the hard way to open it slowly. Lol. It’s so strange because if I turn up the chimney fan or the boiler draft assist fan, all my heat goes right up the chimney. If I don’t, the gases build up and my flames die out. I think part of it was adding too much coal at once or having too little hot coals and/or fire. It’s doing better since I turned off my boiler draft assist fan, left my chimney fan on lowest setting and just let the boiler use the door draft actuator. Also wondering if my coal bed isn’t deep enough but it takes two 5gal buckets just to cover the grates about 3-4 inches to top of firebrick but still have another 10 inches to the door but didn’t want waste it by burning too much.

 
nut
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Post by nut » Thu. Dec. 22, 2022 12:33 pm

I wouldn't get hung up on flames. Red coals are what count.

 
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ShawnLiNy
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Post by ShawnLiNy » Sat. Dec. 24, 2022 3:51 pm

Byron4bushido wrote:
Thu. Dec. 22, 2022 12:29 pm
Thanks I really appreciate it. This thing has been kicking my butt. I’ve learned the hard way to open it slowly. Lol. It’s so strange because if I turn up the chimney fan or the boiler draft assist fan, all my heat goes right up the chimney. If I don’t, the gases build up and my flames die out. I think part of it was adding too much coal at once or having too little hot coals and/or fire. It’s doing better since I turned off my boiler draft assist fan, left my chimney fan on lowest setting and just let the boiler use the door draft actuator. Also wondering if my coal bed isn’t deep enough but it takes two 5gal buckets just to cover the grates about 3-4 inches to top of firebrick but still have another 10 inches to the door but didn’t want waste it by burning too much.
I'm glad you made it over here Byron

 
Byron4bushido
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Post by Byron4bushido » Tue. Dec. 27, 2022 3:44 pm

Is it possible to burn the coke in my boiler? Fire went out Xmas morning sometime before I woke up. I have a boiler full of what I understand to be coke. I don’t understand why it’s not turning to ash or what to do with it other than shut down and shovel it all out every few days.

 
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carlherrnstein
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Post by carlherrnstein » Wed. Dec. 28, 2022 12:45 pm

It should, but like the coal it comes from it is highly variable. Some is hard like that "lava rock" material an just about will not burn I know where some of that is. It came from a basement, some cities required the use of smokeless fuels and coke is smokeless.

How big are the pieces of coal you are starting with? Egg- softball sized is probably the minimum size, softball sized an up might burn better.

Do you know where did this coal come from? It could be a coal that was selected specifically for use as a metallurgical fuel an somehow ended up being sold as house coal.

What general area are you located in?

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Wed. Dec. 28, 2022 2:09 pm

Byron4bushido wrote:
Tue. Dec. 27, 2022 3:44 pm
Is it possible to burn the coke in my boiler? Fire went out Xmas morning sometime before I woke up. I have a boiler full of what I understand to be coke. I don’t understand why it’s not turning to ash or what to do with it other than shut down and shovel it all out every few days.
Who installed the boiler ? Maybe have a conversation with that guy.

 
Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Wed. Dec. 28, 2022 2:17 pm

I don’t want to. Guys a prick. He also lives here.
I installed it. LOL

 
Byron4bushido
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating WC70
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous egg

Post by Byron4bushido » Wed. Dec. 28, 2022 2:23 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:
Wed. Dec. 28, 2022 12:45 pm
It should, but like the coal it comes from it is highly variable. Some is hard like that "lava rock" material an just about will not burn I know where some of that is. It came from a basement, some cities required the use of smokeless fuels and coke is smokeless.

How big are the pieces of coal you are starting with? Egg- softball sized is probably the minimum size, softball sized an up might burn better.

Do you know where did this coal come from? It could be a coal that was selected specifically for use as a metallurgical fuel an somehow ended up being sold as house coal.

What general area are you located in?
First batch from a dealer in Zanesville Ohio. Second batch was washed bit coal from PA.
It runs from walnut to stove sized. I do have big lumps from the original batch and it doesn’t stick together but also stinks and burns real dirty. Second batch doesn’t stink, burns cleaner, but fuses together on top and I have to break it up every hour or 2 to get my flames and heat back.


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