Building NEW from Scratch

 
Smitty275
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
Location: LaFollette, TN
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
Other Heating: propane

Post by Smitty275 » Sun. Jan. 24, 2021 9:15 pm

I'm looking for suggestions to build a forced air furnace from scratch. I've got all the tools, milling machine, lathe, welder, etc. to make anything I need to. Thinking an air tight design with forced air to control the burn and extend reload times up to 24hrs. Normally it doesn't get real cold here (East Tennessee) with normal lows between 25 and 30 and days usually warm up to 40 or 50. It's going to be in a fairly well insulated building that's 26'x60' and an 8' ceiling. I can get just about anything material wise out of the scrap bin at work.
My first real concern is how heavy a gage steel are the fire boxes usually made from so I can start collecting material. I have the shaker grates already that I had made for my Hot Blast 1321 when I burned coal in it. They were in it for a few yeas and still look like they were just made. Took them out when we sold the house. (Shoulda took out the Hot Blast too.) After that its a clean sheet design. I'm sure many will say just go buy something. But I've got more time than money and I need a project.
So what ideas do you guys have? I know there's been quite a few who've done serious modifications to existing devices. But I've been unable to find anything on anyone building from scratch.

Thanks in advance,
Smitty


 
fig
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Mon. Jan. 25, 2021 7:08 am

1/4” steel. Square sides not slanted like the hot blast at least 9” deep. Removable fire brick retainers. Huge ash pan. Over fire secondary air. Domestic hot water tube. Cold air return filter box. Filter protects the fan from dust.

I really like the baffle system in my Clayton 7.3. It creates huge secondary burns when engaged. Maybe take a look at that. I think it was used on the Clayton 1602 also.

 
Smitty275
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
Location: LaFollette, TN
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
Other Heating: propane

Post by Smitty275 » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 3:00 pm

One of my first thoughts was the huge ash pan. I'll have to find pics of the Claytons. I found my post back when I was going to mod the Hot Blast. Surprisingly it's really not too far down the list. Some ideas in there for over fire air using 1" pipe, etc. How far above the bed too should one put the over fire air tubes?

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 3:11 pm

The first thing that I would do is determine which type of coal your going to

burn ,if anthracite they are all high in carbon which has a known burn cycle,

but if bituminous your best bet is to tailor the stove to the characteristics of

that coal. There is a lot of variation in bituminous coal.

Once you have this done then proceed with a design suitable to the fuel.

BigBarney

 
Smitty275
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
Location: LaFollette, TN
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
Other Heating: propane

Post by Smitty275 » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 4:07 pm

Burning Kentucky bit. Kind of why I put it in the bit section.

 
KLook
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Posts: 5791
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: Harrison, Tenn
Other Heating: Wishing it was cold enough for coal here....not really

Post by KLook » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 9:23 pm

God we need a like button.....

Kevin

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 9:40 pm

Do you the coal test for the coal you use ?

This will help you in your design.

BigBarney


 
Smitty275
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
Location: LaFollette, TN
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
Other Heating: propane

Post by Smitty275 » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 10:09 pm

No. I've always adjusted to the coal I had. When I lived in Ohio I usually bought from Thompson Brothers just south of New Lima (Youngstown area). Never burned the same two years in a row even though it came out of the same ground and tipple. Tried a source in Beaver PA. That stuff burned completely different. It bridged really easy and had to keep after it to get any heat out of it. Of course the Hot Blast wasn't a coal specific device either which probably made things a little more difficult. From what I've been told the Kentucky coal is much better quality than that eastern Ohio and Western, PA. coal was.

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Wed. Jan. 27, 2021 10:24 pm

I have burned the Thompson Bros. coal which is an Ohio coal similar to the

Pittsburgh seam in PA and is a fairly high volatility coal that needs extra air for

complete combustion.

I burn Valier Coal and Heritage coal. The Valier coal is a fairly high vol and the Heritage

coal is smaller and is mid-low vol .

I burn a true base burner which is real efficient and has very complete combustion with

low smoke and a hot flame of bright yellow when first started and a clear blue flame after

some of vols. It is a bottom combustion boiler with a double pass heat exchanger.


BigBarney

 
fig
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 12:27 pm

Burning bit in the baseburner?

I thought the hot blast and Clayton burn bit pretty good. Only complaint is those slanted sides and crappy shaker grates. I’m actually considering cutting the bottom off the DS basement stove and scabbing it on the Clayton. I need a forced air furnace with better grates. The DS I was given is pretty warped from the grates up so it wouldnt be much of a loss. It would be an improvement to the Clayton doing this. I couldn’t get enough heat upstairs with the DS so it’s just sitting idle.

 
hman
Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun. Aug. 29, 2010 4:08 pm
Location: Chillicothe,Ohio
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S.Machine 1400 (sold) looking for another stove
Coal Size/Type: Lump/Bituminous

Post by hman » Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 9:55 pm

If you build your furnace, I suggest that you add secondary burn tubes in the top of the firebox with a baffle like the new epa wood stoves have. I have tried Kentucky bit coal in a epa wood stove and the secondary burn tubes light and stay burning along time until the hydrocarbons burn off. Very little smoke coming out of chimney. The baffle is firebrick. I have got the same results when I have burnt coal in the wood stove on multiple occasions.

 
Smitty275
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
Location: LaFollette, TN
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
Other Heating: propane

Post by Smitty275 » Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 10:19 pm

Any pics of the fire brick baffle? Having a hard time picturing that tonight.

 
fig
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 11:54 pm

Most of the epa stoves I’ve seen have a series of over fire air tube beneath a stainless plate with a ceramic fiber sheet on top of that. Some don’t have the stainless just the ceramic fiber sheet over the air tubes. It mostly just traps the heat and increases the temp of the over fire air.

 
hman
Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun. Aug. 29, 2010 4:08 pm
Location: Chillicothe,Ohio
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S.Machine 1400 (sold) looking for another stove
Coal Size/Type: Lump/Bituminous

Post by hman » Sun. Jan. 31, 2021 7:41 am

The firebrick is just your standard size that you can by in big box store. The firebrick runs east west. Where they meet in the middle there is a T bracket that runs from the back of the firebox towards the front. This is way less expensive compared to all them stainless steel and other baffles that stove manufactures use. I ought this stove in 2002 and have used it every year.

 
KLook
Member
Posts: 5791
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: Harrison, Tenn
Other Heating: Wishing it was cold enough for coal here....not really

Post by KLook » Sun. Jan. 31, 2021 8:44 am

Think of it this way, it is an air injection system that preheats the air coming in thru the tubes and injects it into the super hot gasses or volatiles coming of the fresh load. With wood, the fire will roll like a wave until the gas process has ended and the wood glows orange. The baffle is just a plate to make the exhaust go by the tubes.

Kevin


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