Building NEW from Scratch

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 01, 2021 11:01 pm

Maybe the old time bit burners had the right idea and didn't realize it..

fig:

I have posted designs of TRUE base burners many times but most do not

understand the process . These stoves have an airtite magazine and have

bottom combustion which enables them to burn off the volatiles with no

smoke because of the complete combustion of the gases driven off of the

coal . They continue to burn like an oil burner with a low roar after the initial

burn, you can open the magazine and the coal inside is not burning except

down slightly above the grate ,but care must be taken as the gases are

explosive and this is not needed since you can see the flames in the secondary

air.
2009 Fire.JPG
.JPG | 67.2KB | 2009 Fire.JPG

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 01, 2021 11:23 pm

Mid burn..
.MP4 | 35.2MB | VID_20210128_141618995.mp4
Final 12 hours...
.MP4 | 86MB | VID_20210128_142247335.mp4
This allows you to burn all the volatiles efficiently then the carbon

finishes its burn.

BigBarney

 
fig
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Mon. Feb. 01, 2021 11:30 pm

Wow interesting. I seem to recall in Williams video him mentioning the glenwood being able to burn bituminous.

 
Smitty275
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Post by Smitty275 » Mon. Feb. 01, 2021 11:43 pm

Interesting. I've never heard the term "base burner" before. I'm learning something new here for which I thank you.
I must say I was wondering if I could use such an approach just as you described. Airtight over the bed and feed air from the bottom only.

Would some over fire air would be needed at the height of the volatiles burning off?


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Tue. Feb. 02, 2021 8:12 am

Antiques designed for bit have heated over fire air.

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Tue. Feb. 02, 2021 9:15 pm

The air feeds from the bottom through the hot bed of coals and proceeds

up through the coal in the magazine heating it up and slowly distills off the

volatiles and are drawn downward as heated and oxygenated ready to burn

fuel. Similar to to the way the flues in the warm morning stoves burn the hot

gases but this is done in the coal bed above the grate. Secondary air comes in

at grate level to accelerate the final combustion of the hot gases.


This is kinda like pyrolysis of wood or coal in the making of charcoal and coke,

where you burn in a low oxygen environment and create gases which are highly

flammable and burn at high temperatures. This is how the gasifiers work

by destructive distillation by breaking the material apart and creating complex

hydrocarbons many of which have very high BTU values. This is probably why bit

coal is higher in heat value than anthracite coal, if you burn all of the gases.


People confuse base heaters with base burners which are two distinct types of

coal appliances. See the Morning Glory 1868 and all the amendments for the distinction .

This is a TRUE base burner,


BigBarney

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Tue. Feb. 02, 2021 9:30 pm

Franco:

Base Burners need bottom air for the secondary combustion, the primary

air is in the top magazine from the fire near the grate.

These burn like cigar from the end to butt so the hot end is at the tip (grate),

with lower temperature in magazine but highly burnable. If you admit too

much air to the magazine you get an explosion with the sudden unregulated

oxygenated entering the lower combustion chamber esp with bit coal.

These can burn either bit or anthracite efficiently just with a little different

process , bit with more volatiles has a longer burn to clear them , whereas

anthracite has a shorter vol burn and a longer carbon burn.

BigBarney

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Feb. 03, 2021 8:37 am

BigBarney wrote:
Tue. Feb. 02, 2021 9:15 pm
The air feeds from the bottom through the hot bed of coals and proceeds

up through the coal in the magazine heating it up and slowly distills off the

volatiles and are drawn downward as heated and oxygenated ready to burn
So air feeds up and down at the same time in the same place.


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Feb. 03, 2021 8:55 am

Coles-Hot-Blast-Stoves-Ad-Sep-1905.png
.PNG | 801KB | Coles-Hot-Blast-Stoves-Ad-Sep-1905.png
Typical bit burner

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00C0C_lUYHtJQci4i_600x450.jpg
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mntbugy
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Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
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Post by mntbugy » Wed. Feb. 03, 2021 9:20 am

Some of the best "antique" bit burners are.
Moore's 3 way and cabinet model 402,403.
Cole's hot blast.
Radiant Home air blast.
Florence hot blast 151,153,55,75,77.

Better heaters are before 1900.

Most any heater with blast or forced draft in the name.

 
fig
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Wed. Feb. 03, 2021 9:25 am

The trick is finding them with all the essential parts intact.

 
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Post by BigBarney » Wed. Feb. 03, 2021 2:06 pm

Franco:

Air can flow in both directions at the same time , but not in the same space.

The front of the stove has air going up or down depending in the burn cycle,

the rear of the magazine can do the same. If the burn cycle is using the volatiles

as fuel the rear part of the chamber is usually down because the draft of the

chimney is greater there . When the volatiles are expended the the carbon

combustion is not as violent so there is a more controlled burn that is still

downward pulling the vapors from the magazine to the combustion area

above the grate.

BigBarney

 
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Scottscoaled
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Post by Scottscoaled » Wed. Feb. 03, 2021 7:14 pm

You can figure anyway you want to make it more efficient, burn hotter, whatever. When it comes right down to it, you need square inches of heat transfer area. That’s why the base burners were so efficient. They wrangled every last BTU out of the coal because they had more square inches of heat transfer area. I always thought that if I had to make a hot air furnace From scratch, I would make the top of the firebox long and thin and have the end of it have a set of double tubes coming back over the top of the fire to a box and then passing through out the back sort of like the old tube boilers. That is still the most efficient boiler model. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work with hot air also. Double pass horizontal tubes.

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