Hotblast Year 4

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 12:22 am

Larry

Most of what your showing is the coke produced from the coal, thats what you burn

after all the volatile compounds have burned away, this burns smokeless with high

heat and burns down to ash. The ash wouldn't be black but usually tan to reddish and

either chunky or sandy.

Leave all of that in the fire and bank front or back whichever you prefer with the new

coal partially covering the hot coals , you'll have to judge how much you need to be able

to burn the volatiles off for complete combustion and very little smoke , this is set with

your secondary air .



BigBarney


larryfoster
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Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 12:32 am

Thanks, Barney.
A lot of this never burns down.
Some of it is coke, as you say, but the stuff in the second and third picture doesn't burn for me.

It just gets hot and glows.

The coke is real light weight but these are heavy and are fused together.
They're bigger than any lumps I put in the fire..
But, I'll try to see if I can get them to burn.

In the past, it was suggested that I remove this stuff because it was filling up my firebox and I had no room to add very much coal

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 4:18 pm

Here are some pictures of what I pulled out of my boiler..
Copy of Copy of IMG_20180107_161752.jpg
IMG_20180107_161746.jpg
You can readily see the ash separated from the coke which still has to burn up.

BigBarney

larryfoster
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Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 5:22 pm

Thanks for the pics, Barney.
It helps to get a comparison.

I get all from a fine powder to smaller stuff through the grates.
The stuff I showed was what I pulled out with tongs.

After your earlier reply, I realized you were correct and they would all burn since they're nor in the other stove.
But, they're really hard to break up

larryfoster
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Posts: 1291
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Sun. Jan. 14, 2018 5:09 pm

I haven't been cold.
But, have burned a lot of coal.
Almost 3 tons , so far, and getting another 3 this week.

I started burning in early November and have had to burn almost continuously since.

I did a burn out on Thursday Jan. 11 but decided not to clean the chimney since I had cleaned it out on Dec. 23.
That was only 3 weeks.
Surely, I wouldn't have a soot problem that soon.
:o

Well, I have had a problem with smoke coming out the load door when I add coal.
Lots of smoke.
Enough that I have to close the door between shovels full.

I have the ash door open, the MPD open and the mano reads .08.

I have, pretty religiously, followed Ky Speedracer's instructions a couple pages back on leaving the secondary air open to burn off the volatiles.
Anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half.

But, importantly, the old HB has done the job in a much colder winter than we've had since I got it.

larryfoster
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Posts: 1291
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Sat. Jan. 20, 2018 10:21 am

More Perils of Pauline.

Got coal yesterday.
Asked for nut coal but it was more like pea with very small lumps and a lot of fines.

Last night it worked fine when I banked.
This morning, I'm having a dickens of a time getting it burning.

I had the ash door open for over an hour and still hadn't caught very well.

(I was checking every 15-20 minutes)

I think it's so fine that air isn't coming through.

I could see orange in the ash pan but no fire.
Finally, after several times of getting the poker under and lifting up and making some air holes, I got some flames.
Until then, just smoke.

I think it will burn.
Just need to figure out how to use this.

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 11:00 am

Larry:

Where did you get the coal ?


Do you bank the coal when you fill , leaving either the back or front still

burning and the new coal against the burning pile so only a small amount

of coal is starting to burn and the volatiles will burn ? This will prevent some

of the smoke problem and let the fire start slowly.



Bigbarney

larryfoster
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
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Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 11:56 am

Thanks, BigBarney.

I have been getting from the same place last year and this year.
It is from a tipple in Shelocta, Pa.
It is Kittanning coal.
That's pretty much what's available around here.

Lots of people here recommend Valier coal, which is also Kittanning coal.
I would buy a load from there if I could get someone to haul it but it's further than people want to go and I don't want to haul since I got a little newer truck.

I have filled several different ways.

I wasn't doing it until near the end of last season but lots here have said to fill it from back to front to the top of the bricks and use the shovel turned over to push it all the way to the back.
That worked pretty well until this new load came with smaller lumps and a lot of fines.
I had good heat even at below zero temps.

I don't think it's allowing the air to come up through the fire unless I use the poker several times in the first hour or more to get some holes.

My guy said it was nut coal.
I suspect they just got it from the side or bottom of the pile where all the small stuff settled.

Last few days, with warmer temps, I was pushing all the hot coals to the back and filling the front because I didn't need as much heat.

The problem I am encountering in my constant state of confusion is banking like that doesn't give me an opportunity to burn off the volatiles because it's burning from one end to the other instead of burning under the whole bed.


larryfoster
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Posts: 1291
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 12:05 pm

I just cleaned my chimney and this is what I got in 42 days
42 days soot.jpg
That is a tall kitchen bag and more than 1/2 full

Also blew out the lines for the manometer to be sure I was getting good readings

I'll re-light tonight since cooler temps are returning

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titleist1
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Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite
Location: Cecil County, MD

Post By: titleist1 » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 12:18 pm

larryfoster wrote:
Sun. Jan. 14, 2018 5:09 pm
I haven't been cold.
But, have burned a lot of coal.
Almost 3 tons , so far, and getting another 3 this week.

I started burning in early November and have had to burn almost continuously since.

I did a burn out on Thursday Jan. 11 but decided not to clean the chimney since I had cleaned it out on Dec. 23.
That was only 3 weeks.
Surely, I wouldn't have a soot problem that soon.
..............

But, importantly, the old HB has done the job in a much colder winter than we've had since I got it.
Its good to read that you are getting better heating results.

Regarding your clean out schedule......I think you should give more 'weight' to the tonnage you have burned rather than the weeks since last cleaning as the deciding factor.

Even with 'clean burning anthracite', I clean out the first section of semi- horizontal flue pipe after about 2 tons no matter how many weeks since the last cleaning. Enough fly ash gathers there from that tonnage burned to need it.

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 12:32 pm

Larry:

That looks like the flue had all black soot and no flyash. Is it all black with

no tan/brown flyash ?

If so you are not burning the coal volatiles with enough secondary air or the

fire is not hot enough and being smothered by the fine coal.

The coal I burn gets a tan ash and lately a whiter color and has little stone

or clinker. I may be getting a much better burn and can go a long time

between cleanings.

Titleist1 has a good point how many tons have you burned ?

Do you weigh the coal in and the ash out? I do this to see if I'm getting

good efficiency of my burn.

BigBarney

larryfoster
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
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Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Thanks for the response, Titleist1.

I have gone through 3+ tons since the beginning of November.
I started burning a month earlier this year and have been burning almost constantly since.

I was scraping the bottom real hard when I got this load Friday.

Just a wild guess that I've burned 1-1/2 tons since the last cleaning.

It's fairly easy to clean since I got my Soot Eater attachment for my drill.
No need to climb on the roof.
Takes less than an hour from tearing apart until it's back together and ready to go again

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1291
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 12:57 pm

Thanks, again, BigBarney.

It gets confusing because last year, what I referred to as soot, I was told was fly ash.
No wonder I'm so confused.
:o
There is no tan color.
It's black/gray.

Especially after Ky Speedracer's instructions a few pages back, I burn with the secondary air wide open for, at least, 45 minutes to more than an hour and the MPD open.
Only after most of the black smoke is gone do I close the secondary draft on the load door and start to close the MPD.

On loading, I open the ash door for 20 minutes or until I get a good burn.
I check it frequently so it doesn't get too hot.

As far as weighing, I don't do that.
I can give a pretty good idea by volume of coal and ash but not weight.

As far as ash, I take out around 2 coal buckets per day.
They are the ones you get with the tapered front that looks a little like a spout.

One time I weighed a shovelful of coal and it was around 7 lbs. (If memory serves)
When the coal bed is pretty low I can put around 7 shovels in to fill to the top of the bricks.
Other times it will only hold 4.

I, now, fill twice a day.
Based on using 3 tons of coal in approximately 83 days, I'm guessing 75 lbs. of coal a day

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 5:40 pm

P_20161214_094350_1_p.jpg
All black is not good means a lot of the energy is going up the chimney unburned.

Fly ash is usually the same color as the ash below the grate but small and light and

be swept up the chimney when burning. You shouldn't have black smoke.

A good estimate of the coal weight is ~38# for a 5 gallon bucket , make sure its 5 gallons

because many are other sizes , best to weigh what you have and use that value for amount

added and write down in notebook and the time added so you know if something is

askew.Do the same for the ashes with the bucket you use. Two buckets seem like a lot of

ash , I get about 10-12% ash from the Valier Coal lump size.

Are you still seeing rock in the ash?

Maybe try keeping your secondary always open , mine is opened 100% all the time my

primary opens and closes as heat is needed , about 6x as large as the secondary air full

open.


BigBarney

larryfoster
Member
Posts: 1291
Joined: Fri. Nov. 21, 2014 1:02 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 617-B
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous nut (me and the coal)
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene
Location: Armstrong County, Pa.

Post By: larryfoster » Mon. Jan. 22, 2018 7:23 pm

Thanks, BigBarney.

I hope this reply doesn't offend you because I appreciate your generous help and input.
With almost 100% certainty, I, probably won't be weighing and logging my inputs and outputs.

I can see value in doing this but I don't have enough interest in that kind of analysis.
Or discipline.

Using your previous advice, I've not been fussing as much with the "rocks and, as you said, it mostly all burns.

I, mostly, try the suggestions offered here.
My experience with leaving the secondary open all the time is less heat in the house.
I've seen this when I've gotten busy and forgotten to close it.

But, I will try leaving it open longer.

I was/am willing to try the Valier coal but had trouble getting it to me which is why I get what I have.

Because this has been an ongoing suggestion, I'd like to prove to myself and/or others one way or the other.

I may have a misconception.
It wouldn't be my first.

In my, possibly, deluded and bull-headed mind, Kittanning coal is going to have similar characteristics regardless of where it comes from.
There are considerations that may affect it's performance.
These could include how much dirt, lump size and others.


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