Hotblast Year 4

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larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Mon. Dec. 18, 2017 9:55 pm

I'm thinking only one element is the same and that is closing the slider on the load door.
I'll keep trying that until it doesn't work.

Supposed to get cold in a couple days again with highs in the 20s.
I'll see if it's repeatable or a fluke.


 
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Ky Speedracer
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Post by Ky Speedracer » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 12:20 am

Hello Larry,
Typically, the secondary adjustment on your stove is not a "set it and forget it" type of setting. ESPECIALLY with bit coal. With my stove and with most others that operate similar to our stoves when burning bit, and for that matter wood, you open the slide control on your door most, if not all the way after you load in fresh fuel. Then, 45 minutes to an hour or so later, once the volitales have baked out and burned off, you can close the secondary all the down if you want (you are still getting some heated secondary air from your front and back liners). I always run a little bit of secondary air. It helps prevent excess soot build up in my flue pipe.
If you run your stove all the time with the secondary air closed off, I'd bet a few bucks that you will have a soot packed flue pipe and chimney in no time.
Closing your secondary air off or regulating it to balance your primary air and desired temp all makes sense but, make sure you get your volitales cooked off and a hot fire before you close her down.

 
larryfoster
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Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Post by larryfoster » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 7:10 am

Thanks for your reply, Ky.

I've always had a soot problem.
Maybe due to closing the secondary for those first few years?

Haven't gotten the fires hot enough to make the furnace cherry red this year.
More like 300-450.

Yet, the house is warmer.

I'll take your advice and not set it and forget it

 
Jgib4
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Post by Jgib4 » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:24 am

larryfoster wrote:
Mon. Dec. 18, 2017 9:55 pm
I'm thinking only one element is the same and that is closing the slider on the load door.
I'll keep trying that until it doesn't work.

Supposed to get cold in a couple days again with highs in the 20s.
I'll see if it's repeatable or a fluke.
We are having a warm streak with highs in the 50s yesterday and today:)

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:26 am

We are, too.
Back to mid 30s tomorrow and 20s next week.
Maybe.

 
Jgib4
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Post by Jgib4 » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:31 am

larryfoster wrote:
Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:26 am
We are, too.
Back to mid 30s tomorrow and 20s next week.
Maybe.
Bummer i hate the cold. I could do with another winter like last year.

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:41 am

Ky Speedracer, here's what I did this morning after reading your advice around 7 AM.

I think this is what you're telling me.

After clearing the ashes there wasn't a lot of hot coals.
I filled the box, opened the ash door, slider on load door and MPD.

After 20 minutes, checked and left everything open for 15 minutes more.
Then closed the ash door with the spinner open 4 whole turns.

After another 30 minutes, the volatiles were burned off so I closed the slider completely and MPD to 1/2.

House warmed decently.
Just checked and the fire is burning decently 2 hours after initial loading.
Not sure if it will be much fire there when I get back in 4 hours.
I'll let you know


 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:43 am

Bummer i hate the cold. I could do with another winter like last year.
Me, too.
I started burning a whole month earlier this year.

Almost 1/2 way through my initial 3 tons of coal.

 
Jgib4
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Post by Jgib4 » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:47 am

larryfoster wrote:
Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:43 am
Me, too.
I started burning a whole month earlier this year.

Almost 1/2 way through my initial 3 tons of coal.
:o

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:55 am

That's what I thought, too.

 
corey
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Post by corey » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 10:45 am

larryfoster wrote:
Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:41 am
Ky Speedracer, here's what I did this morning after reading your advice around 7 AM.

I think this is what you're telling me.

After clearing the ashes there wasn't a lot of hot coals.
I filled the box, opened the ash door, slider on load door and MPD.

After 20 minutes, checked and left everything open for 15 minutes more.
Then closed the ash door with the spinner open 4 whole turns.

After another 30 minutes, the volatiles were burned off so I closed the slider completely and MPD to 1/2.

House warmed decently.
Just checked and the fire is burning decently 2 hours after initial loading.
Not sure if it will be much fire there when I get back in 4 hours.
I'll let you know
I think thats the key is closing the load door air after the gasses are burnt. The heat is staying in the furnace instead of the secondary's blowin it out the chimney.

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 10:49 am

I'm usually a little confused about when that happens

 
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Ky Speedracer
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Post by Ky Speedracer » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 11:25 am

larryfoster wrote:
Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 9:41 am
After another 30 minutes, the volatiles were burned off so I closed the slider completely and MPD to 1/2.
If I was you, I would try to burn for a while without adjusting the MPD at all. Leave it wide open.
You can accomplish the same thing that you get by making the adjustments with the MPD by simply making the adjustments to your primary and secondary air controls.

In basic terms - think of it as you are managing 2 separate fires. The fire under your fuel (primary) and the fire over your fuel (secondary).
As long as you are burning in your stove, you have combustion. Managing that combustion is what you do to regulate your heat. There are 3 components necessary for combustion, heat, oxygen and fuel. Once combustion begins, you are managing that combustion (think of combustion as heat output) by controlling the oxygen/air input.
As I said above, with your primary (bottom fire) and secondary (top fire) air controls, you are managing 2 different fires. One fire is under the coal bed and the other fire is over it.
The "under fire" you seem to have a pretty good handle on. You control how much fuel you burn and, consequently, how hot the stove runs with that primary air control.
The "second fire" or "top fire" (secondary burn) burns over top of the coal bed above the fire. Typically this fire is only a concern when all of those volitale gases (fuel) from the primary fire or "bottom fire" are being baked out of the fresh coal after you reload.
To recap - after you refuel and early in your burn, as your fresh coal is igniting (primary fire/burn), another condition for a second or "top" fire is being created above your coal bed. The baked out gasses are flooding the combustion area above your coal bed (fuel) and heat/flames are coming up through the coal bed from the primary fire (heat). All you need to do now is introduce oxygen to that in environment and you have a secondary burn/top fire. This secondary burn environment is drastically more intense with bituminous coal than with anthracite. That is the reason that secondary air is so much MORE important to bit burners.
If you don't ignite that fuel (volitales) being released from the fresh coal, you are just wasting potential energy/heat. Not to mention the fact that soot generated from a poorly combusted bit fire will plug your flue pipe up in a big hurry...
After the volitales have burned off from your secondary fire or "top fire" (maybe 45 minutes to a hour or so), the flood of additional fuel from the fresh coal above the coal bed is pretty much gone. So, for all intents and purposes, the secondary fire is burned out (that's not exactly correct BUT, for the purposes of you having to manage the "top fire", it's done). Close your secondary controls down and make your adjustments to the primary fire as needed. If by chance the secondary get's left open, it won't really hurt anything but, it might cool your primary fire off some by allowing unnecessary air into fire box above the coal thus creating additional pressure above the fire. That will prevent air from being "pulled" in under the fire consequently cooling your fire and stove.

The MPD is really only helpful if you have a stove that is not "air tight" or has poor control over the air input. The MPD is a control that regulates air intake by restricting the gas flow as it goes up the flue pipe. You have plenty of air intake control of your stove.
So, try and leave the MPD wide open as much as possible and regulate your two fires with the primary and secondary air controls. The MPD will just confuse results that you would get from managing your burn correctly.

 
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 11:31 am

Speedracer, perfectly said

Larry, make a copy of that post, put it in a plaque and hang it in your stove room where you can see it at every tending. 8-)

 
corey
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Post by corey » Tue. Dec. 19, 2017 12:32 pm

Great post Speedracer.


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