Warm Morning 400 in Small House

 
fizban
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Joined: Fri. Oct. 09, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: SW Virginia
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Combustioneer 77B
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400B
Coal Size/Type: Bit various sizes
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Post by fizban » Fri. Dec. 25, 2015 12:01 am

Hi everybody,
I have found a Warm Morning 400 for sale locally that I am going to try to look at. What I am wondering, will it be too big to heat my house? I have a 960 ft house with a 900 ft basement (where the stove would be). There is a heat vent located directly above the stove. The house is 35 years old with probably average insulation. It has baseboard electric, which I don't mind running some in the bedrooms and bathroom to keep warm, but I don't want to completely heat with that.

Any ideas on if this would work? Can the WM 400 be brought back to 20k or 30k BTU or similar on a low setting? I appreciate any advice. As far as location, I'm in SW Virginia. I know that January average high is 42 and low is 24. Thanks
Last edited by fizban on Fri. Dec. 25, 2015 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.


 
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Hambden Bob
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Post by Hambden Bob » Fri. Dec. 25, 2015 12:25 am

Well Fiz,We can start with "Merry Christmas"....... Today's just not Coal Biz as usual...... I'm sure You'll get responses from a couple of Real Informative Pro's regarding Your Christmas Day Questions... Just stick around,as they may just be making Merry with their Loved Ones and may not be plugged into a keyboard 'till later on. I'm sure they're going to ask You about doing a Heat/Loss Calculation for Your home,what kind of chimney You've got,how well insulated is it and so forth. They'll probably ask You where Your located so as to advise You with Your climate for Your area during a normal Winter........Stand By for Adventure,Mister ! :up:

 
fizban
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri. Oct. 09, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: SW Virginia
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Combustioneer 77B
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400B
Coal Size/Type: Bit various sizes
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Post by fizban » Fri. Dec. 25, 2015 12:57 am

Thanks, and merry Christmas to you also. No immediate replies required. I was thinking of taking a look at it on Saturday if it is still available. Figured I would see if I was making a mistake 1st.

 
KingCoal
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Fri. Dec. 25, 2015 10:04 am

a WM 400 is a really good choice esp. since you will run it from the basement.

the question being do you have ways for return air to leave the upper house and descend to the basement ? and preferably from 2 spots near the outside walls furthest from the stove. that will create a good convection "loop".

the 400 will hold 100#'s of coal and will idle for days if required or throw some serious heat.

the thing with these stoves is, you have to VERY seriously look for burned thru spots on the barrel, cracked or broken castings esp. at doors and hinges. you will want to take off every removable panel from the cabinet and use BRIGHT light to do this, it takes some crawling around.

there are woven gasket seals at some connections on this stove, you need to check them and determine if they need replaced and if you feel like doing it. the rear flue exit and the original cast elbow for these stoves took alot of abuse. if the barrel is deformed and the elbow showing signs of spreading along the seams ( it's 2 piece ) the stove was over fired, probably on wood, and you might want to think twice.

you need good to very good bricks that are complete or you will spend a fortune or alot of time buying or recasting some.

the grates should be damage free, though if the center shaking grate has one or even 2 cracks it's pretty much the norm. the center and the dump fork can be bought at decent price if needed. i'm running my stove fine with a center that has 2 cracks toward the middle, cracks out toward the edge would not be acceptable.

if you have the time before buying and installing a stove, take lots of really well lit pics of as much of the stove as you can and post them here. we might be able to help you not make a mistake OR confirm that you have a good candidate.

be warned, the 400 is a HEAVY beast and will NOT take a drop kindly. if you have to remove and install this stove in fully assembled form you will need at least 3 other fully committed MEN. I take the top casting off the WM's I move and remove all the bricks ( take a pic 1st ) and the grates. you must be careful with the bricks a sharp knock will break them.

in the case of these cabinet stoves, take off all the panels and if you can remove the outer cabinet itself from the mounting brackets and lift it away too.

when I find one of these that i'm pretty sure i'm going to buy, I take the cabinet off 1st thing to do all the rest of the "looking", just makes it easier.

this was a long post, it probably seems like it's more trouble than it's worth, but it's not that bad if you're handy and have some tool skills.

if you find a good 400 you will be more than paid back by it's service.

best of luck,
steve

 
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Townsend
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Post by Townsend » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 7:21 pm

Nice report KingCoal! Thank you.

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 6:04 am

you bet, I wonder if the O.P. got the stove.

 
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Hambden Bob
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Location: Hambden Twp. Geauga County,Ohio
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
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Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni ! / Nut
Other Heating: Pro-Pain Forced Air

Post by Hambden Bob » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 6:12 am

He 'aint been back since the 30th,so maybe he's doing heavy investigations ! Thanx for that very informative kicker,King ! :up:


 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 7:52 am

i was hoping it wasn't taken as an attempted shot at the groin.

by the time the various manufacturers were making these cabinet stoves they had the internal barrel stuff pretty much down but because people weren't looking at the actual heat producing parts they tended to get over fired.

when I see units of this type with the cabinet panels, doors etc. darkened and / or warped I just keep walkin, it's never good. it's kind of amazing to me too, cause stoves like the 400 for example are capable of safely and reliably producing LARGE heat out put even with out the fan, when they get beat on you have to wonder what kind of use they were trying to serve.

 
fizban
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Posts: 41
Joined: Fri. Oct. 09, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: SW Virginia
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Combustioneer 77B
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400B
Coal Size/Type: Bit various sizes
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Post by fizban » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 12:04 am

Hi everybody,
Sorry, I forgot about this thread a bit. Been a bit busy this week with closing on a house today.

I looked at the 400 and everything looked good, so I went ahead and got it. I test fired it outside and everything seems good on it. Of course it's my luck one showed up 2 days later online locally for half the price. Almost thought about picking it up also.

I'm excited to get it installed next week and try it out. Thanks for the advice everybody.

 
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dcrane
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Post by dcrane » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 6:27 am

fizban wrote:Hi everybody,
Sorry, I forgot about this thread a bit. Been a bit busy this week with closing on a house today.

I looked at the 400 and everything looked good, so I went ahead and got it. I test fired it outside and everything seems good on it. Of course it's my luck one showed up 2 days later online locally for half the price. Almost thought about picking it up also.

I'm excited to get it installed next week and try it out. Thanks for the advice everybody.
we would all love photo's posted of your WM 400 when you can, does it have the blower option? I happen to love Warm Mornings! Im not sure the price you paid or the price of the new one listed (1/2 price doesn't tell me a lot)... but since you have one it might be worth grabbing the other for spare parts!

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 7:16 am

oh good !! i'm glad you found a solid stove.

BTW, IF there is budget room open, dcrane's advise to snag the second one is something to consider.

steve

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 7:33 am

fizban wrote:Hi everybody,
I looked at the 400 and everything looked good, so I went ahead and got it. I test fired it outside and everything seems good on it. Of course it's my luck one showed up 2 days later online locally for half the price. Almost thought about picking it up also.
Glad you found a good one!

But just a warning....once you pick up a coal burner it is best to stop looking or you end up with (stokers in my case) one in the house, one in the workshop, one in the garage as a parts machine for the other two, a hand fed in the basement in case the power goes out for a long time and the stokers are useless, and one that was just too good a price to pass up, needed little work and would be sold except this real warm weather & cheap oil doesn't have people looking to buy a coal burner just yet!! :bag:

and if you think I'm an exception just look at one of stokerdon's threads!! :verycool:

e.t.a....and us guys around here are always going to be ready to help you spend your money on another stove so don't look to us to restrain you in your new hobby/obsession!! :lol:
Last edited by titleist1 on Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 7:47 am

fizban wrote:... Can the WM 400 be brought back to 20k or 30k BTU or similar on a low setting? I appreciate any advice.
I wouldn't call 20K or 30K BTU's low by any means.

20K BTUH of average output for 24 hours straight demands the burning of about 56 lbs. of anthracite.

30K BTUH of average output for 24 hours straight demands the burning of about 84 lbs. of anthracite.

 
fizban
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri. Oct. 09, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: SW Virginia
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Combustioneer 77B
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400B
Coal Size/Type: Bit various sizes
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Post by fizban » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 3:37 pm

Unfortunately looks like I may have jumped the gun. Chimney sweep states the liner is cracked down near the thimble. He wasn't too optimistic on repair options. For burning bit I assume I need an intact liner? It is an exterior block chimney.

I have heard bad things on here about stainless liners. Any thoughts on that? If repair would be more than 1000 I might just stay with the baseboard heat. I do have a good mechanic that could do the labor.

Hope everybody has a good weekend.

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Sat. Jan. 09, 2016 3:47 pm

I personally don't see a problem with burning coal in it at all. But with that said, where is the thimble and the crack? is it in the basement and out in the open like mine is? is there any cracks in the mortar joints between the bricks? Is this chimney running up thru the middle of the house, or is it on an outside wall?

Can you post pictures?


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