What Mods Would You Do... Hotblast 1321
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
I have a hand fired HotBlast 1321. Very basic dual purpose furnace for wood/coal. It works OK but I've seen on here where people have made mods to improve efficiency and function to other furnaces. So I'll give a few of my ideas and hopefully a few of those more experienced than me will chime in with ideas also. I will be burning bituminous coal only. Occasionally a wood fire to clean the stack of soot or to get a fire started.
Pics where taken while cleaning the area. The coal bin, nor anything else, sits right next to the furnace. I just got a burr to take pics and ask questions so I stopped what I was doing and took pics.
Not sure why it looks so bad but can never get a good shot of this thing that it looks black like it really is. Row of over fire air slots and a spinner on the ash door for under fire air. Plus the "fire temp" box with the dial on it.
This is a shot of the fire box. it's about 26" deep overall. Grates are about 10" wide.
This is the underair "fire temp" box. Next two are of the hole closed and the hole opened. The hole is below the grates.
That's all it has as far as fire air controls. I usually lay a plate across the row of slots to shut the air way down. Doesn't seal perfect but cuts it down a lot none the less.
In this pic you can just see the bottom of the flu and the [ shaped piece in front of it to stop fire from going straight out the chimney. I think that needs modified also. My chimney has one heck of a draft, yet it's nearly impossible to open the door with out a puff of smoke coming back. Almost like a layer of smoke lays on the roof of the box above the top of the flu and the top of the door.
Blower motor is on the back end as is the blower motor control that turns on and off with box temp.
I'm going to seal off the blower motor intake air so it all gets filtered. Probably have it pull from the main furnace return air duct.
Have considered putting heat button on top of cabinet that would only let blower motor run if box was hot enough. The heat coil one in the back seems to be getting finicky and sticking occasionally. Once I put the button on top I'd then put a thermostat upstairs to turn blower on and off. As it sits it runs full time once hot which overheats the house big time. I think the house temp would be better regulated with an upstairs thermostat.
Next I think I'm going to put a piece of glass in the door so I can see what's going on inside. I saw somewhere about putting a "wash vent" over the glass to keep the smoke off of it. So I'll do that.
I'm also considering adding a slider to regulate the row of slots across the front of the door.
Or should I block them and add a tube on each side from the rear for above fire air? That's the part I'm not so sure I understand the why's of doing so. How big of tubes would I use? If I do that do the tubes have holes along their length to distribute the air evenly? I'll probably use a spinner type knob for opening and closing the air to the tubes.
Somewhere I also read where someone blocked off half their fire box grates so as to use less coal. How to block and how much burn time is lost?
Having thirty plus years being a Tool & Die Maker and currently doing heavy industrial machining I have access to just about any machine tool I could ever need to make or alter pieces parts.
One other thing. My chimney is double wall stainless that goes up the outside of the house. With just a little bit of heat in the box it drafts well. BUT, if the box is ice cold the chimney down drafts something terrible. I use a propane torch for about thirty seconds to reverse it to be able to light a fire. I'm pretty sure part of the cold draft issue has to due with proximity to tall maple trees and the prevailing wind direction. It comes over the trees and drops. I have a basic round top on the chimney. Would putting a large flat over the top of it help stop the down draft when cold issue? I've noticed such a flat on top of chimneys when looking at old photos of row houses and such during the coal burning era of yester year. Thought maybe this is why they have them.
TIA
Smitty
Pics where taken while cleaning the area. The coal bin, nor anything else, sits right next to the furnace. I just got a burr to take pics and ask questions so I stopped what I was doing and took pics.
Not sure why it looks so bad but can never get a good shot of this thing that it looks black like it really is. Row of over fire air slots and a spinner on the ash door for under fire air. Plus the "fire temp" box with the dial on it.
This is a shot of the fire box. it's about 26" deep overall. Grates are about 10" wide.
This is the underair "fire temp" box. Next two are of the hole closed and the hole opened. The hole is below the grates.
That's all it has as far as fire air controls. I usually lay a plate across the row of slots to shut the air way down. Doesn't seal perfect but cuts it down a lot none the less.
In this pic you can just see the bottom of the flu and the [ shaped piece in front of it to stop fire from going straight out the chimney. I think that needs modified also. My chimney has one heck of a draft, yet it's nearly impossible to open the door with out a puff of smoke coming back. Almost like a layer of smoke lays on the roof of the box above the top of the flu and the top of the door.
Blower motor is on the back end as is the blower motor control that turns on and off with box temp.
I'm going to seal off the blower motor intake air so it all gets filtered. Probably have it pull from the main furnace return air duct.
Have considered putting heat button on top of cabinet that would only let blower motor run if box was hot enough. The heat coil one in the back seems to be getting finicky and sticking occasionally. Once I put the button on top I'd then put a thermostat upstairs to turn blower on and off. As it sits it runs full time once hot which overheats the house big time. I think the house temp would be better regulated with an upstairs thermostat.
Next I think I'm going to put a piece of glass in the door so I can see what's going on inside. I saw somewhere about putting a "wash vent" over the glass to keep the smoke off of it. So I'll do that.
I'm also considering adding a slider to regulate the row of slots across the front of the door.
Or should I block them and add a tube on each side from the rear for above fire air? That's the part I'm not so sure I understand the why's of doing so. How big of tubes would I use? If I do that do the tubes have holes along their length to distribute the air evenly? I'll probably use a spinner type knob for opening and closing the air to the tubes.
Somewhere I also read where someone blocked off half their fire box grates so as to use less coal. How to block and how much burn time is lost?
Having thirty plus years being a Tool & Die Maker and currently doing heavy industrial machining I have access to just about any machine tool I could ever need to make or alter pieces parts.
One other thing. My chimney is double wall stainless that goes up the outside of the house. With just a little bit of heat in the box it drafts well. BUT, if the box is ice cold the chimney down drafts something terrible. I use a propane torch for about thirty seconds to reverse it to be able to light a fire. I'm pretty sure part of the cold draft issue has to due with proximity to tall maple trees and the prevailing wind direction. It comes over the trees and drops. I have a basic round top on the chimney. Would putting a large flat over the top of it help stop the down draft when cold issue? I've noticed such a flat on top of chimneys when looking at old photos of row houses and such during the coal burning era of yester year. Thought maybe this is why they have them.
TIA
Smitty
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See if opening a window or door to the outside cures your chimney issue. If so then it is house effect causing the down draft.
In general bit coal wants heated over fire air. Pipes you add would be natural draft and the blower might pressurize the fire chamber. I would add the pipes in hopes of not needing the blower.
In general bit coal wants heated over fire air. Pipes you add would be natural draft and the blower might pressurize the fire chamber. I would add the pipes in hopes of not needing the blower.
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- Member
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
There's a cap on the chimney, just a round one that is not much over chimney diameter.
No, they are not shaker grates. That's something else I want to figure out and add.
I don't have a blower. So it will be natural draft. I've been perusing the last half hour or so and came across the mods done to a HB1537 furnace. That looks like something I can do with this one. Might be asking him for info on his flapper hookup to open and close the tubes. I can do electrical but not real good at figuring it out from scratch.
No, they are not shaker grates. That's something else I want to figure out and add.
I don't have a blower. So it will be natural draft. I've been perusing the last half hour or so and came across the mods done to a HB1537 furnace. That looks like something I can do with this one. Might be asking him for info on his flapper hookup to open and close the tubes. I can do electrical but not real good at figuring it out from scratch.
- hotblast1357
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
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- Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace
you can check out the thread for the mods ive done to the 1357 I had in my signature, but they are totally different than what you need because I burn anthracite which is totally different than bit. the air tubes for over the fire air was for burning the gasses and I piped them to my under fire air, I made no actual changes to the structure of my furnace, I would try getting your furnace dialed in first with bit before I go trying to make anything auto mated.
- Lightning
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How do you work ash out of the fuel bed without shaker grates? That must be one hell of a chore.
I would start with the addition of secondary air tubes right at the top of the fire bricks.
Secondary Air Distribution System
Is that furnace right up against a board to the coal bin? I'm a little concerned about it.
I would start with the addition of secondary air tubes right at the top of the fire bricks.
Secondary Air Distribution System
Is that furnace right up against a board to the coal bin? I'm a little concerned about it.
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- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
The bin is only against the furnace because I was cleaning and stopped to take pics.
I get ashes out the old fashioned way. A hooked poker to shake them from the top side. Yes it's a pia. That's why I'd like to figure out a way to make a shaker of some sort.
How big a diameter for the secondary air tubes? 1" ID or larger?
The way it sits there isn't much to dial in with. I can shut it down as tight as possible and its not tight enough. That's why I need to eliminate or modify the slots in the door.
Opening a window(s) does not stop the down draft when no fire in the box. Any heat at all in the box and it drafts up.
I get ashes out the old fashioned way. A hooked poker to shake them from the top side. Yes it's a pia. That's why I'd like to figure out a way to make a shaker of some sort.
How big a diameter for the secondary air tubes? 1" ID or larger?
The way it sits there isn't much to dial in with. I can shut it down as tight as possible and its not tight enough. That's why I need to eliminate or modify the slots in the door.
Opening a window(s) does not stop the down draft when no fire in the box. Any heat at all in the box and it drafts up.
- warminmn
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I second Lightnings mention of overfire air. He covers it in detail to do with how many holes and what size holes to drill in his posting. Id go with 1" and I cant remember what size mine are but I know I wish they were bigger. Its like an inferno when they are opened up after loading a fresh load of either type of coal. Works decent for wood too. Preheat the air somehow too as you will read about.
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- Member
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
I've completed two upgrades. Simple ones, but a good start.
I found a piece of scrap brass and made a window frame. Machined it to leave a .030 gap along top and bottom of glass to act as a smoke wash as described by others. I ordered a piece of 4"x8" x 3/16" ceramic tempered glass. Then made a bar to go across the open slots in the door so that air can be regulated. I still need to make a knob for the regulator screw.
The furnace door had a bow cast into it. So I set it on the mill and machined it flat across the air holes and where the frame sits. Then I cut out the hole with a 1/2 end mill. Located where I needed the holes through the door and drilled them while still on the mill. I used 1/4-20 fasteners with stove nuts to hold everything in place.
So far so good and I'll finally be able to see the fire and better regulate the burn. Next to work on the over fire air tubes. I'm sure a few feet of scrap tubing will turn up.
I need my wife to take a day trip so I can repaint the rest of the furnace to match the door. She hates any kind of paint or solvent smell.
I found a piece of scrap brass and made a window frame. Machined it to leave a .030 gap along top and bottom of glass to act as a smoke wash as described by others. I ordered a piece of 4"x8" x 3/16" ceramic tempered glass. Then made a bar to go across the open slots in the door so that air can be regulated. I still need to make a knob for the regulator screw.
The furnace door had a bow cast into it. So I set it on the mill and machined it flat across the air holes and where the frame sits. Then I cut out the hole with a 1/2 end mill. Located where I needed the holes through the door and drilled them while still on the mill. I used 1/4-20 fasteners with stove nuts to hold everything in place.
So far so good and I'll finally be able to see the fire and better regulate the burn. Next to work on the over fire air tubes. I'm sure a few feet of scrap tubing will turn up.
I need my wife to take a day trip so I can repaint the rest of the furnace to match the door. She hates any kind of paint or solvent smell.
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- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
- Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Instead of shaker grates you could go to slicing the bed by cutting two slots just above grate level. Slide a flat poker of either 1/8 or 3/16 thick by 3/4 wide into those slots to clear ash. An offset end on the poker also could help. The slots must be covered when not in use.
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- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
I've heard of slicing. My question is if your poker is 3/16 x 3/4 wide how does that help with coal bed being 9" across. Or is the slot wide enough to allow pivoting the poker around a bit as opposed to just straight in? Not sure how I'd put slots in. There is a cover that goes from bottom of door and down to the grates that I'd have to slot also.franco b wrote:Instead of shaker grates you could go to slicing the bed by cutting two slots just above grate level. Slide a flat poker of either 1/8 or 3/16 thick by 3/4 wide into those slots to clear ash. An offset end on the poker also could help. The slots must be covered when not in use.
Right now I just ram an old crow bar through the ashes. Same principle. Probably a little more disruptive of the coal bed though.
I've been wondering if the shaker grate assembly from another 1300 series Hot Blast would lay in in place of my existing grates.
- Ky Speedracer
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I wondered the same thing. Do you have a TSC store or a RuralSmitty275 wrote:I've been wondering if the shaker grate assembly from another 1300 series Hot Blast would lay in in place of my existing grates.
King anywhere near? They usually have Hotblast stoves on their floors. A lot of times they will have grates for sale as well. You can take measurements from your stove and may be able to determine if that might work...
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- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
Yes, we have a TSC local. That's a good idea. I'm going to swing in there one night after work. Also a place that deals with wood and coal burners about an hour away. that'll be a weekend trip since I can't get there before they close during the week.Ky Speedracer wrote:I wondered the same thing. Do you have a TSC store or a RuralSmitty275 wrote:I've been wondering if the shaker grate assembly from another 1300 series Hot Blast would lay in in place of my existing grates.
King anywhere near? They usually have Hotblast stoves on their floors. A lot of times they will have grates for sale as well. You can take measurements from your stove and may be able to determine if that might work...
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- Member
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 12, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: LaFollette, TN
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Currently a Warm Morning 414 A. Previously had a Hot Blast 1321
- Coal Size/Type: To Be Determined
- Other Heating: propane
Stopped by TSC finally. They had a 1357M sitting there. The shaker grates from it would be a drop in for mine. After looking at it I think I can make the setup a lot cheaper than what they want. I'll let you all know what I end up with.