New to Bituminous Coal - Need Some Guidance

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pmarzec
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Post by pmarzec » Wed. Oct. 07, 2015 2:06 pm

Brand new to the forum and now a new home owner. I've recently purchased a VG2500 wood/coal burning add on furnace. I've read a lot about coal and some people just love it, I would've gotten a larger stove with a hopper, but I couldn't afford it after my home purchase.

I have a 3200 sq ft home and the current system is oil and I wanted to get away from that and put in a heat pump for cooler temps and a add on furnace wood/coal for when it gets really cold. Can anyone tell me the following?

Benefits of coal vs wood...
I have 10 acres so wood is pretty plentiful, but I like the idea of having everything in my garage without insects. Could I mix the two? Like, burn wood one day and then coal on others?

Is coal as "dirty" as people say it is?

Anyone know of a reliable coal supplier in Northeast Ohio?

How do you store it indoors? Bins/garage floor etc?

Any other tips/info anyone can give me I would appreciate it. Thanks and sorry if any of these questions are redundant.

Paul


 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Wed. Oct. 07, 2015 8:17 pm

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not sure how much I can help, but I'll try. First will be with the furnace you purchased, according to the specifications it will heat 'up to' 2500 sq. ft., you have 3200. You will be pushing that furnace very hard to try to keep up with the call for heat and I doubt very much if it will do what you want.

Bituminous coal is just as dirty as wood, but has no bugs. And you don't need a chainsaw, logsplitter or several years of drying time for the coal. Depending on the wood, you need 2 to 4 years of drying time to get the maximum amount of heat out of it. Coal should be stored indoors if at all possible, and close to the furnace because (not to be a smarta**) you will be shoveling your butt off to try to heat that house with that furnace.

You can mix wood with coal, it will burn just fine.

My biggest tip for you, in all sincerety, is to return that furnace ASAP, nix the heat pump, and get an appropriately sized coal furnace for your house if you want to use coal. A boiler might be a better idea for your needs honestly.

Here is a good thread for you to read: From OWB to EFM520 Installed in Truck Box

Good luck, Don

 
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Ky Speedracer
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Post by Ky Speedracer » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 8:06 am

Welcome to the forum Paul. Lots of great info here.
Let me start by saying that I'm not familiar with your exact model of stove but it seems fairly similar to my Hotblast 1557. So my feedback and opinions are based on my experiences with my stove.
I will do my best to try and answer your questions;

I have a 3200 sq ft home and the current system is oil and I wanted to get away from that and put in a heat pump for cooler temps and a add on furnace wood/coal for when it gets really cold. Don is probably correct in that 3200 sqaure feet is going to be a challenge for your model of furnace. Especially if it's a ranch. If it's a two story home it will make it much easier to heat (as heat rises). Probably the single most critical thing that you will need to do is to make sure that the cold air return is tied into your existing furnace and appropriately sized (i.e. the cold air intake duct sized to match the supply duct). This will allow your furnace to operate at its maximum efficiency.

Benefits of coal vs wood... The only draw back in your situation may be that you have access to free wood. But wood must be seasoned for it to burn well and safely (no chimney fires). The only other disadvantage I can think of is if you burn bit it can smoke a lot when you first recharge the stove. And it has a very distinctive smell. So if you have close neighbors that can be an issue.. In my opinion its much less messy than wood (no bugs and very little dust). Especially the bit that I use (It is big chunks).
Coal is a lot less work. It burns longer and hotter. No creosote so no chimney fires.


I have 10 acres so wood is pretty plentiful, but I like the idea of having everything in my garage without insects see above

Could I mix the two? Like, burn wood one day and then coal on others? Yes, for sure with bit. As I understand it, not likely with anthracite.

Is coal as "dirty" as people say it is?the bit that I use is from eastern KY has very little dust Sometimes you get a load where the bucket used to pick it up has picked up some small dusty like pieces that stick the large chunks but if that happens I just hose it off. As for inside the house, my wife swears that it is much much cleaner than wood and even oil that we use to use.

Anyone know of a reliable coal supplier in Northeast Ohio? Can't help you here. I'm just outside of Louisville KY.

How do you store it indoors? Bins/garage floor etc? I actually store my coal outside on a trailer. I just load up a couple of 5 gallon buckets every time I recharge and leave them next to the stove. I use those buckets to reload and then fill the buckets back up, leave those next to the stove and then your good to go again later.

Any other tips/info anyone can give me I would appreciate it. Thanks and sorry if any of these questions are redundant. If you decide to burn anthracite you will need to make some very simple modifications to your stove (you have to block the primary air from the ash pan area from bypassing the coal bed). It's a simple modification but makes a big difference for burning ant.
Your stove should burn bit coal just fine. It burns like wood, except hotter. Start off with a mature wood fire and load a few big pieces of bit until you get the feel of how volitale it is. Make sure you give the bit coal plenty of secondary air when you load it up. Allow it to bake out and burn off all those volitale gasses released from the coal. Let it burn for a half hour or so before you start to throttle back that secondary air in order to avoid those nasty puff-backs. As I said, start with small amounts until you get the feel of how it reacts to the adjustments you make.
I cant emphasize the part about the cold air return enough for your size of house. It will make an enormous difference in the efficiency of that style stove.
The last thing that comes to mind is read, READ, READ! Read through this forum about bit or anthracite. Whichever you choose. Search Clayton and/or Hotblast stoves. I think these are similar to what you have and will give you good info for what to expect. Don't let some of the negativity about this type of stove deter you if that's what you have. For the money, they do a pretty darn good job. They have certain limitations but they are easily dealt with.


GOOD LUCK and happy burning!
Steve

 
pmarzec
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Post by pmarzec » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 9:29 am

Thanks guys! I have a young family and we're just starting out, this is my first house and I have two little ones. I looked into the big coal burners with big hoppers and they look awesome, hopefully my experience with this stove will lead me to an upgrade once I get a bit more settled in, but right now it was the most I could afford.

My house is a raised ranch, so 1500 living space upstairs, and 900 downstairs with an 800 ft garage, which doesn't need much heat. Although it's 3200, my true heating needs are emphasized on the 2300 or so and can just maintain a little heat in the garage or get the heat from the warmth of the stove itself.

Thanks for the sincerity and tips. Hopefully the size change in true heating will sway Don's opinion. I know the add on furnace I bought isn't top of the line, but hopefully it will be alright to start off with.

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 9:41 am

Anyone know of a reliable coal supplier in Northeast Ohio?

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 9:43 am

Anyone know of a reliable coal supplier in Northeast Ohio?
Bit Coal in North Eastern Ohio

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Have you made a decision on which you want to use? Bituminous or anthracite? I believe the Bit coal in your area will be high volatile and it is a tough animal to wrestle with. But, you should try both to see what you are willing to deal with. There is some learning curve involved with both.

And like the others have mentioned, a ducted cold air return should absolutely not be overlooked.


 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 4:45 pm

In Northeast Ohio we can import good bituminous coal just the same as we can import the anthracite. :lol:

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Thu. Oct. 08, 2015 9:34 pm

pmarzec wrote:Thanks guys! I have a young family and we're just starting out, this is my first house and I have two little ones. I looked into the big coal burners with big hoppers and they look awesome, hopefully my experience with this stove will lead me to an upgrade once I get a bit more settled in, but right now it was the most I could afford.

My house is a raised ranch, so 1500 living space upstairs, and 900 downstairs with an 800 ft garage, which doesn't need much heat. Although it's 3200, my true heating needs are emphasized on the 2300 or so and can just maintain a little heat in the garage or get the heat from the warmth of the stove itself.

Thanks for the sincerity and tips. Hopefully the size change in true heating will sway Don's opinion. I know the add on furnace I bought isn't top of the line, but hopefully it will be alright to start off with.
Just going by the figures presented in the original post my friend,

I have the Clayton 1600, which would be a cousin to your furnace. I know what I go through to heat my house here in Southwestern, Pa. And I also want to mention, that my house was built for a coal furnace, yours wasn't!

And I'll add a little more.
KYSpeedracer has access to the best Bituminous coal known to mankind, at 175.00 per ton, it runs 250 to 300 per ton in your location............That's in the range of Anthracite coal, which will heat better for longer with less fooling around with. The coal in your area isn't much different that mine..........dirty, sooty and a hell of a lot of work!
You got's some learnin coming, and you will find out real quick..............be sure to thank the right person!

Best of luck to ya, my friend, you're gonna need it.

 
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Oct. 09, 2015 7:11 am

Thompson Bros. in New Springfield sell a variaty of soft coals. (better local coal plus imported)
They have Kentucky Lump and even a custom blend of part Kentucky Lump, part high grade soft coal that together performs better than either does alone. Thompson's also carry soft stoker coal and Blacksmith coal.

Then there is no sales tax on any coal over the stateline in New Wilmington, PA.
Both imported hard and imported soft in bulk and hard in bags.

Note: imported means *trucked in* and not not necessesarily locally mined. ;)

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Fri. Oct. 09, 2015 9:09 pm

Vogelzang 2500..........just in case any of the experts here checked.............115,000 BTU's: https://wood-furnaces.net/vogelzangnorsemanlgwood ... px#block_1

That would make it smaller than the Hotbalst 1357, which is rated at 139,000 BTU's.

I can see this heating 3200 sq. ft. :rofl:

Better keep the oil furnace and install the heat pump.....................your gonna need it all. toothy
Last edited by SWPaDon on Sat. Oct. 10, 2015 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by carlherrnstein » Sat. Oct. 10, 2015 1:04 pm

Just throwing this in the mix, Don't prick with a hand-fired soft coal furnace. The new made stoves can burn soft coal, however they don't burn all of the coal a large amount of hydrocarbons go up the chimney without being burned.

If you want to burn soft coal without large temperature swings and a sooted up chimney then you need a soft coal stoker. Combustioneer an firetender both made freestanding units for soft coal, and iron fireman and many many other companys made conversion units that go into a handfired furnace to automate them. Stokers are hooked up to a standard thermostat that heats when needed and they have timer that keeps the fire going like a pilot light. The day to day tending is put coal in take clinker out and thats it.

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Sat. Oct. 10, 2015 9:44 pm

If anyone is still following this thread, it would appear that this is size of furnace the OP purchased: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_20 ... sku=175093

 
pmarzec
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Post by pmarzec » Sun. Oct. 11, 2015 12:17 am

Yeah Don, that's not correct, go back to giving other people bad advice.

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Sun. Oct. 11, 2015 6:39 am

pmarzec wrote:Yeah Don, that's not correct, go back to giving other people bad advice.
February is just around the corner.


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