Coal Boiler for Alaska Shop
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- Member
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Mon. Jul. 21, 2014 1:12 am
- Location: Anderson Alaska
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
- Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
- Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump
Hello All: I have a quick question. I live north of Healy Alaska so coal supply is good. I currently run a Harman 2000 in my home and very happy with the way it heats my home and VERY happy with the cost.
I have a rather large barn/shop (over 5000 sq ft) but will only heat the front half (2300 sq ft) also note that it has 14 foot ceilings. I am looking to put a boiler in that will heat my shop area so that I can enjoy the cool Alaska interior winters. I would like to keep the shop 40ish daily to keep things from freezing and when I work out in it on the weekends be able to bring it up to a more comfortable upper 50s to middle 60s.
I prefer an outdoor boiler system and will run air/water heat exchangers with blowers no matter what system. There are lots of OWB to choose from but I am unsure about the following:
How they burn coal
How easy it is to clean them out
Efficiency
Brand
Any ideas on what to look at and what to stay away from? The central boilers although nice looking seem to be lacking a lower coal clean out door which bothers me and would indicate that they do not have shaker grates.
I would like to keep the reasonable as it is just heating my shop for now... maybe in the future I would like to hook it to both the shop and home but that size unit may be out of my price range for now.
Thoughts on what some of the Alaskan brothers/sisters are using in the interior.
Central
Shaver
Aqua-Therm
ect
Thanks for the help
I have a rather large barn/shop (over 5000 sq ft) but will only heat the front half (2300 sq ft) also note that it has 14 foot ceilings. I am looking to put a boiler in that will heat my shop area so that I can enjoy the cool Alaska interior winters. I would like to keep the shop 40ish daily to keep things from freezing and when I work out in it on the weekends be able to bring it up to a more comfortable upper 50s to middle 60s.
I prefer an outdoor boiler system and will run air/water heat exchangers with blowers no matter what system. There are lots of OWB to choose from but I am unsure about the following:
How they burn coal
How easy it is to clean them out
Efficiency
Brand
Any ideas on what to look at and what to stay away from? The central boilers although nice looking seem to be lacking a lower coal clean out door which bothers me and would indicate that they do not have shaker grates.
I would like to keep the reasonable as it is just heating my shop for now... maybe in the future I would like to hook it to both the shop and home but that size unit may be out of my price range for now.
Thoughts on what some of the Alaskan brothers/sisters are using in the interior.
Central
Shaver
Aqua-Therm
ect
Thanks for the help
- windyhill4.2
- Member
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
After using an OWB for 8 yrs I could never recommend one to anyone ! We heated 2 houses & our 30 x 40 shop @ 30 cords/yr. Ours rusted thru the water tubes inside it & thru the exterior. Most OWB are like ours,an open to the air system,not a closed boiler system,this allows oxygen into the water continually & results in the need to be very strict & vigilant on the water treatment,we obviously were not as diligent as we needed to be.Tending the OWB in all kinds of weather is bad enough,fixing it in the early a/m hrs of the coldest,windiest day of winter really turns one on the OWB idea. We are actually spending less on coal than we did with wood + there is so much less work with the coal.
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- Member
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Mon. Jul. 21, 2014 1:12 am
- Location: Anderson Alaska
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
- Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
- Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump
I totally agree. Sorry for the confusion. I am looking to burn coal only. It just seems that most are dual fuel but looking for the best brands to do what I am wanting to do with Healy coal
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
The first question would be, What kind of coal can you get in your area??? If it is Bituminous, the OWB will likely be OK burning it. If it is Anthracite, an OWB will have a lot of problems burning it.
The OWB's are designed to burn wood, coal is an afterthought and Anthracite coal was not considered on any OWB's I have seen. They all seem to have way to much over fire air and no way to closed it down. Burning Anthracite requires 99% of the air to come up through the coal bed and a very, very small amount of over fire air.
Also consider this, the OWB's are not really boilers, they are an open system. This allows a lot of boiler destroying oxygen into the boiler water. They typically don't last very long.
-Don
EDIT: WHOOPS, I didn't realize I was in the Bituminous coal forum. So, we can assume you will be burning Bituminous coal. Please disregard my comments about Anthracite coal.
-Don
The OWB's are designed to burn wood, coal is an afterthought and Anthracite coal was not considered on any OWB's I have seen. They all seem to have way to much over fire air and no way to closed it down. Burning Anthracite requires 99% of the air to come up through the coal bed and a very, very small amount of over fire air.
Also consider this, the OWB's are not really boilers, they are an open system. This allows a lot of boiler destroying oxygen into the boiler water. They typically don't last very long.
-Don
EDIT: WHOOPS, I didn't realize I was in the Bituminous coal forum. So, we can assume you will be burning Bituminous coal. Please disregard my comments about Anthracite coal.
-Don
- BunkerdCaddis
- Member
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 10:26 am
- Location: SW Lancaster County
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Bairmatic-Van Wert
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Van Wert VW85H
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II working when I feel the desire, Waterford 105 out on vacation, Surdiac Gotha hiding somewhere
- Coal Size/Type: pea/nut/rice/stove-anthracite, nut/stove bit when I feel the urge
- Other Heating: oil fired hydronic
I suppose I'll throw my two cents in here not that I know much about anything but... I had a Mahoning OWB for 18 years ( actually still have it but it's at the farmhouse, not the house I now live in). I burnt almost entirely wood but one year I ran out, I couldn't get into the woods because of snow and bought Anthracite stove coal for it. I knew NOTHING about burning coal other than it needed grates and bottom air which the Mahoning has and a very nice workable set at that. A Mahoning OWB will burn coal very well and I am sure it will burn Bit well also. It has shaker grates and an ash pit and you can shut off the secondary air. (And I assume the design hasn't changed )
BUT... Efficiency is a whole different story. My Mohoning would burn ANYTHING I threw at it, including and not limited to oil filters, sawdust, leaves, books (yes I'm a book burner, and I'm talking 5 or so 3000lb trailer loads) cardboard etc. To do that an OWB can't be efficient. It's gotta be able to blow air, make fire, shut down, take the creosote and turn around and do it all over again without clogging up the flue. So a vast amount of heat goes right up the stack.
I think in a nutshell what will be the biggest consensus here and what most in your situation might do is get a coal boiler (indoor unit) and put it in an out building, insulate it well and be much happier in the long run. There are a number of threads here on just that thing, windyhill's story is in the EFM section and is a good read. Use the search box (upper right) to find much more.
BUT... Efficiency is a whole different story. My Mohoning would burn ANYTHING I threw at it, including and not limited to oil filters, sawdust, leaves, books (yes I'm a book burner, and I'm talking 5 or so 3000lb trailer loads) cardboard etc. To do that an OWB can't be efficient. It's gotta be able to blow air, make fire, shut down, take the creosote and turn around and do it all over again without clogging up the flue. So a vast amount of heat goes right up the stack.
I think in a nutshell what will be the biggest consensus here and what most in your situation might do is get a coal boiler (indoor unit) and put it in an out building, insulate it well and be much happier in the long run. There are a number of threads here on just that thing, windyhill's story is in the EFM section and is a good read. Use the search box (upper right) to find much more.
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- Member
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Tue. Sep. 04, 2007 10:14 pm
- Location: Dalton, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite
Forum member Short Bus lives near you and has made hundreds of posts regarding use of that coal (I think). It might be worth skimming those posts and/or sending a private message to see if Short Bus wants to chip in.
Even for people who don't live in Alaska, there are a lot of reasons to try to position the boiler inside the space being heated if possible. Heat "lost" from an indoor boiler still tends to heat the building, and transmission losses from underground lines are avoided. I'll guess that frost heaves in your area could be rough on underground piping, and getting access to buried lines for any type of mid-season repairs could be pretty problematic. Moisture in the coal may also be an issue; you would need to have a way to make sure the coal was either dry or protected against freezing. In short, my suggestion would be to look hard at putting it inside the barn/shop.
Mike
Even for people who don't live in Alaska, there are a lot of reasons to try to position the boiler inside the space being heated if possible. Heat "lost" from an indoor boiler still tends to heat the building, and transmission losses from underground lines are avoided. I'll guess that frost heaves in your area could be rough on underground piping, and getting access to buried lines for any type of mid-season repairs could be pretty problematic. Moisture in the coal may also be an issue; you would need to have a way to make sure the coal was either dry or protected against freezing. In short, my suggestion would be to look hard at putting it inside the barn/shop.
Mike
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I stand corrected. Maybe a Mahoning OWB would be a good choice. If it has a good set of full sized shaker grates it would be a very versatile wood/ coal/ junk burner.
-Don
-Don
- BunkerdCaddis
- Member
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 10:26 am
- Location: SW Lancaster County
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Bairmatic-Van Wert
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Van Wert VW85H
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II working when I feel the desire, Waterford 105 out on vacation, Surdiac Gotha hiding somewhere
- Coal Size/Type: pea/nut/rice/stove-anthracite, nut/stove bit when I feel the urge
- Other Heating: oil fired hydronic
Mike, I absolutely agree with you and that is why I am doing it that way now myself (well sort of) and would be my first choice. But if I had a shop where I worked on gasoline equipment I would be skittish with anything less then a well isolated room for it. I was in Alaska last summer on a volunteer work trip and couldn't believe how many OWBs I saw w/ the lines running on top of the ground and they burn spruce and birch to boot.Pacowy wrote:Heat "lost" from an indoor boiler still tends to heat the building, and transmission losses from underground lines are avoided.
StokerDon wrote:Maybe a Mahoning OWB would be a good choice.
I learned too much on this forum to say it would be a "good choice" But they do have a full set of rocking grates w/ a lever to shake them (I forgot my son burnt a ton of coal in it last year). I used to say I "was going out to feed the Dragon" and it was, with an appetite for destruction.
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- Member
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Mon. Jul. 21, 2014 1:12 am
- Location: Anderson Alaska
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
- Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
- Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump
Thanks for all the replies. I have thought about putting an indoor furnace in the shop but I am concerned about the potential fire hazard given it is a shop. I do not work on cars often but it is a possibility as well as wood working. I do burn sub-bit coal out of Healy Alaska.
There seems to be mainly Central boilers in the area but it appears that there is NOT a ash door which is absolutely necessary burning coal and I am not sure about shaker grates. Aqua-therms are available from time to time but I have not seen one other than in pictures. Outside of that there are only very expensive stokers available. Titan boilers.... great looking units but at 15k-18k that seems like a lot of investment to just heat my shop for the time being and is not an option. Obviously a stoker would be the way I would like to go but the $$$$$ may prevent that. not sure I can afford a top of the line right now PLUS just finding a boiler of any type in Alaska is difficult. Portage Maine catches my eye but again hard to find. Just wanted some opinions from those using different kinds before I have one shipped in. Once you buy it you own it and that is a big investment to just take a chance.
thanks again
There seems to be mainly Central boilers in the area but it appears that there is NOT a ash door which is absolutely necessary burning coal and I am not sure about shaker grates. Aqua-therms are available from time to time but I have not seen one other than in pictures. Outside of that there are only very expensive stokers available. Titan boilers.... great looking units but at 15k-18k that seems like a lot of investment to just heat my shop for the time being and is not an option. Obviously a stoker would be the way I would like to go but the $$$$$ may prevent that. not sure I can afford a top of the line right now PLUS just finding a boiler of any type in Alaska is difficult. Portage Maine catches my eye but again hard to find. Just wanted some opinions from those using different kinds before I have one shipped in. Once you buy it you own it and that is a big investment to just take a chance.
thanks again