Newbie With Hotblast/Clayton Burning Kentucky Bituminous
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
Hello guys. As you can see this is my first post. I just registered today but I've spent some time reading a multitude of posts here. The wisdom and knowledge here is impressive.
I have been burning lump bit coal in a small potbelly. I also have a coal fireplace in my old farmhouse that we burn bit in as well. I have purchased a 1year old Hotblast. I will soon be installing it in my basement. I live just outside of Louisville and have easy access to bit. The closest ant is 75 miles. Lightning, your post on burning ant in one of these stoves with the various mods is incredibly informative. Any chance there is a post somewhere here that has this much detail for burning bit in a Hotblast/Clayton type stove. Thanks!
I have been burning lump bit coal in a small potbelly. I also have a coal fireplace in my old farmhouse that we burn bit in as well. I have purchased a 1year old Hotblast. I will soon be installing it in my basement. I live just outside of Louisville and have easy access to bit. The closest ant is 75 miles. Lightning, your post on burning ant in one of these stoves with the various mods is incredibly informative. Any chance there is a post somewhere here that has this much detail for burning bit in a Hotblast/Clayton type stove. Thanks!
- Lightning
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
HI speed racer, welcome to the board. I've heard that the Kentucky bit is some of the best in the country. It sounds like you have experience with it in the pot belly. The bigger the pieces, the better. Your hot blast should do fine with it just the way it is. Give it a try. It's important to keep ash cleared best you can. If you find that it's loosing heat output later thru the burn, the sealing of the liners as described earlier in this thread may help. If you do decide to seal the liners, you'll wanna keep a good portion of over the fire air with the load door vents.
Please report back with your adventures with the kentucky bit. I'd love to hear and see how it performs for you..
I'd recommend that you start a thread for your bit usage in the hot blast. There are bit burners here that will be happy to help you along.
Please report back with your adventures with the kentucky bit. I'd love to hear and see how it performs for you..
I'd recommend that you start a thread for your bit usage in the hot blast. There are bit burners here that will be happy to help you along.
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
Thanks Lightning. Once I get the Hotblast installed I’ll see about starting a “newbie using a Hotblast to burn bit” post. My chimney that I’m going to connect to is the same one my oil furnace is connected to. My plan is to disconnect the oil furnace flue from the chimney, install the flue from the Hotblast with a baro (my chimney has a pretty strong draft) and then reconnect the oil furnace flue into the Hotblast flue at an angle (kind of like a plumbing wye if that makes sense). I assume I will need to put a manual damper type door in the oil furnace flue before the wye to help keep the draft pulling air through the Hotblast? Does this sound right?
The chimney is unlined but clean and in good shape. It was used 50 years ago to burn coal and have been burning oil for the last 50. Based on what I’ve learned here, as long as I don’t burn wood (creosote) there is relatively little chance of a chimney fire with coal.
Sorry to have hijacked your post here. If I need to move it somewhere else I will. I’m new to posting too so I’m not sure of the etiquette.
One last thing. I read your post on secondary air. It sounds like bit needs a decent amount of secondary air flow to combust volatiles, especially right after loading up. Is this something you think would be beneficial? Or, is the load door vent control sufficient? I know, I’m probably getting the cart ahead of the horse without any first-hand knowledge of how my furnace will actually operate. Just thought it might be easier to make that modification while the furnace is sitting in the garage before installing it.
Thanks.
The chimney is unlined but clean and in good shape. It was used 50 years ago to burn coal and have been burning oil for the last 50. Based on what I’ve learned here, as long as I don’t burn wood (creosote) there is relatively little chance of a chimney fire with coal.
Sorry to have hijacked your post here. If I need to move it somewhere else I will. I’m new to posting too so I’m not sure of the etiquette.
One last thing. I read your post on secondary air. It sounds like bit needs a decent amount of secondary air flow to combust volatiles, especially right after loading up. Is this something you think would be beneficial? Or, is the load door vent control sufficient? I know, I’m probably getting the cart ahead of the horse without any first-hand knowledge of how my furnace will actually operate. Just thought it might be easier to make that modification while the furnace is sitting in the garage before installing it.
Thanks.
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
Actually no.. I don't like this plan. The rule is one appliance on one chimney flue. Worse yet, connecting two flues together with a "T" before they arrive at the chimney sounds dangerous to me and I don't think its even legal. Could any moderators please advise on this??Ky Speedracer wrote:Once I get the Hotblast installed I’ll see about starting a “newbie using a Hotblast to burn bit” post. My chimney that I’m going to connect to is the same one my oil furnace is connected to. My plan is to disconnect the oil furnace flue from the chimney, install the flue from the Hotblast with a baro (my chimney has a pretty strong draft) and then reconnect the oil furnace flue into the Hotblast flue at an angle (kind of like a plumbing wye if that makes sense). I assume I will need to put a manual damper type door in the oil furnace flue before the wye to help keep the draft pulling air through the Hotblast? Does this sound right?
Correct, no creosote with coal.Ky Speedracer wrote:there is relatively little chance of a chimney fire with coal.
That's no problem.. I'd rather you ask questions here than not at all..Ky Speedracer wrote:Sorry to have hijacked your post here. If I need to move it somewhere else I will. I’m new to posting too so I’m not sure of the etiquette.
Yes, the load door vents will be adequate for secondary air..Ky Speedracer wrote: I read your post on secondary air. It sounds like bit needs a decent amount of secondary air flow to combust volatiles, especially right after loading up. Is this something you think would be beneficial? Or, is the load door vent control sufficient?
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
Glad I asked. I don't necessarily need the oil furnace piped back in. Just thought that it would be nice to have in case I needed it for some reason. I certainly don't want to create a dangerous situation. For what it's worth, my plan was more of a "Y" than a tee to reconnect. As I said, it's not that important to have both hooked back together if it's safety issue. I can always set it up so that it's semi-easy to disconnect one and reconnect the other.
Thank you sir for your feedback. It's very much appreciated.
Thank you sir for your feedback. It's very much appreciated.
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14658
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
Your Welcome.. My statement of it being illegal wasn't exactly accurate, but that arrangement isn't up to code. It can be made to work using the "T" arrangement like you suggested (I've never seen a "Y" with stove piping) but a much safer alternative is to power vent the oil burner and use the chimney for the coal burner. The dangers with using bit and an oil burner together on one flue are complications from soot build up from the bit coal and puff backs..Ky Speedracer wrote:Glad I asked. I don't necessarily need the oil furnace piped back in. Just thought that it would be nice to have in case I needed it for some reason. I certainly don't want to create a dangerous situation. For what it's worth, my plan was more of a "Y" than a tee to reconnect. As I said, it's not that important to have both hooked back together if it's safety issue. I can always set it up so that it's semi-easy to disconnect one and reconnect the other.
Thank you sir for your feedback. It's very much appreciated.
My choice would be to disconnect the oil burner completely. You can always hook it back up if you need to. Just be sure that the oil burner can't accidentally be engaged if it isn't hooked up.
- coaledsweat
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- Posts: 13763
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
I'm going to move this to the bituminous forum, it is a more suitable setting for these posts.
A strong draft is good but probably not with both devices, if you must TEE the two together (I've never seen a Y), I would recommend a stack damper on the oil burner as it will bleed room air up the chimney.
A strong draft is good but probably not with both devices, if you must TEE the two together (I've never seen a Y), I would recommend a stack damper on the oil burner as it will bleed room air up the chimney.
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
I think I'm leaning towards Lightning's suggestion of a power vent option foe the oil furnace. Probably a $300 solution but may be the most functional and safest solution.
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
A couple of other questions; keeping in mind using bit coal and the hotblast furnace, when it comes to gauging performance, after I load and burn for several hours, what would be some reasonable goals/targets to monitor?
Over the door temp - 275 to 290 range?
Flue temp before baro - 150ish?
Above baro (is this temp even important or something to be concerned with?) ?
Mano - .03 ish?
Burn time - 8 hours?
I realize out door temps and the quality of the coal will have an impact on this info but I'm just looking to get in the ball park. Our temps here are in the upper 20s to low 30s at night and 40s during the day right now.
The biggest issue is going to be the newbie operating the furnace for awhile... Haha
Over the door temp - 275 to 290 range?
Flue temp before baro - 150ish?
Above baro (is this temp even important or something to be concerned with?) ?
Mano - .03 ish?
Burn time - 8 hours?
I realize out door temps and the quality of the coal will have an impact on this info but I'm just looking to get in the ball park. Our temps here are in the upper 20s to low 30s at night and 40s during the day right now.
The biggest issue is going to be the newbie operating the furnace for awhile... Haha
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14658
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
Yes sir, all those numbers look good. You should get 12 hours or more burn times. I'm doing 24 with anthracite and bit has similar BTUs per pound. Actually, if memory serves me right, the Kentucky has more BTUs per pound. You'll wanna get big chunks. Cantaloupe to football size pieces.
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
I have about a ton of bit. It ranges from Apple/orange size to football size. My potbelly has a small door. Nothing fits larger than a medium grapefruit size.
I am gaining a fair amount of confidence with everyone's help here. I'm getting excited to get going on my install. Probably be a a week or two before I can get fired up.
I assume banking the coal with the fresh bit is probably best? Pushing hot coals to the back, leaving a couple of inches of hot over the grates closest to the load door and putting the new on top?
I am gaining a fair amount of confidence with everyone's help here. I'm getting excited to get going on my install. Probably be a a week or two before I can get fired up.
I assume banking the coal with the fresh bit is probably best? Pushing hot coals to the back, leaving a couple of inches of hot over the grates closest to the load door and putting the new on top?
- SWPaDon
- Member
- Posts: 9857
- Joined: Sun. Nov. 24, 2013 12:05 pm
- Location: Southwest Pa.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
- Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
- Other Heating: Oil furnace
I have the Clayton, and mine works better banking at the front. I think it's because most of the air comes from the front and that will burn first allowing the air to bypass the coal bed.Ky Speedracer wrote:I have about a ton of bit. It ranges from Apple/orange size to football size. My potbelly has a small door. Nothing fits larger than a medium grapefruit size.
I am gaining a fair amount of confidence with everyone's help here. I'm getting excited to get going on my install. Probably be a a week or two before I can get fired up.
I assume banking the coal with the fresh bit is probably best? Pushing hot coals to the back, leaving a couple of inches of hot over the grates closest to the load door and putting the new on top?
My Clayton is also slightly modified. My front liner cracked and I had to order a replacement. In the meantime, the local welding shop cut a piece of heavy stainless that would slide down into the liner, thus blocking the air from going over my coal bed at the front. This allowed the air to go thru my entire coal bed(not just the front), which for the first time allowed my entire coal bed to burn. It increased the heat from my furnace by at least 100%. And I got longer burn times.
I still get plenty of over the fire air from the back liner.
Experiment with it, and you'll find what it likes.
- SWPaDon
- Member
- Posts: 9857
- Joined: Sun. Nov. 24, 2013 12:05 pm
- Location: Southwest Pa.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
- Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
- Other Heating: Oil furnace
I let almost zero air in thru the load door vents. The only air that gets thru is what bypasses the stainless plate that has been installed.Lightning wrote:Nice move blocking the front and not the back for using bit coal.. How much air do you let in thru the load door vents?
- Ky Speedracer
- Member
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
- Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
- Other Heating: Oil
Thanks for the input on banking.
Just to make sure Im on the same page...the "front" is just inside the load door? So, you pull the hot coals to you and then pitch the lumps of bit towards the rear? As I assume you know, there is a baffle that covers about 2/3rds of the fire bed (basically covering the back of the fire bed). My understanding of what you've done is block the area just below and inside the load door to prevent the air from coming up from the ash-pan area. Leave that same area behind the firebox open, allowing the air from below to come up and flow over the fresh load of coal pulling it forward to the burning coal? This modification also forces more air through the coal bed as well to create a hotter burn?
This is basically doing half of one of the mods that Lightning made to his Clayton to help burn the ant?
Don't missunderstand. I'm not questioning either of your designs. I'm not that smart. I just want to make sure I understand it. Honestly, I didn't even realize the areas in front of and behind the fire boxes were there for the purpose of over-fire air until I started reading through the info on this site. It will certainly help to make adjustments by understanding the stve's design. Thanks again.
Just to make sure Im on the same page...the "front" is just inside the load door? So, you pull the hot coals to you and then pitch the lumps of bit towards the rear? As I assume you know, there is a baffle that covers about 2/3rds of the fire bed (basically covering the back of the fire bed). My understanding of what you've done is block the area just below and inside the load door to prevent the air from coming up from the ash-pan area. Leave that same area behind the firebox open, allowing the air from below to come up and flow over the fresh load of coal pulling it forward to the burning coal? This modification also forces more air through the coal bed as well to create a hotter burn?
This is basically doing half of one of the mods that Lightning made to his Clayton to help burn the ant?
Don't missunderstand. I'm not questioning either of your designs. I'm not that smart. I just want to make sure I understand it. Honestly, I didn't even realize the areas in front of and behind the fire boxes were there for the purpose of over-fire air until I started reading through the info on this site. It will certainly help to make adjustments by understanding the stve's design. Thanks again.