Pex Me! Help Needed With Underground Pipes.

I have to go 100 feet from my coal boiler to my oil boiler. 50 feet will be underground.
I see a fellow on ebay has some Pex type insulated pipe (link with green pipe)....Wisbro.. Wisbro is supposed to "be as good as" pex-al-pex. He says it's one inch inside, but the local dealer today told me the 1 1/4" Wisbro is over 1 1/4" outside and just under one inch inside. The ebay guy sells a bunch of it for outdoor wood boilers. I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion of it. A one inch pipe will push 80,000 BTUs which is enough, but the fittings go inside the pipe. Doesn't that reduce flow? I don't buy the "It's a short fitting" thing. You can't flow a river through a small pipe even if it's only 1/4" long! I wouldn't mind buying this if I was sure it's work, but I'm not opposed to using larger pipe if needed. I want it cheap and I want it right!
The other link (red & blue pipe) is cheaper, not pex-al-pex. I now see they both say the other is a crook LOL.
I can't seem to find a source for pex-al-pex, much less insulated pex-al-pex.
**Broken Link(s) Removed**


Any opinions, thoughts, links, ideas, help, will be appreciated!

Fred

You want PEX-AL-PEX, manufactured to ASTM F-1281 specification. One supplier is:

http://www.alliedpipesystems.com/

You can insulate the PEX tubing with insulation bought from a A/C supply house. You want the black rubber foam stuff. Buy the thickest wall size you can afford. Place the two insulated PEX lines in corrugated flexible PVC drain pipe tubing. Inside the house and at the boiler building transition to copper with the compression type adapter. Don't worry about the smaller ID on the adapter. Yes you have have a restriction there but it's small compared to the total piping resistance. You want copper because it's smooth inter surface flows water with less resistance than iron pipe. You will likely need a medium head circulator pump like a Taco 0014, definitely not a Taco 007. Do a system resistance - pump curve analysis to select the correct pump.

I'm with Yanche on this.. use PexAlPex.. it's good stuff.. I'd add another layer of corrugated tube over the first layer,, the black corrugated tube is not that expensive, and a second layer, especially with the corrugations is more insulation expecially if you have wet ground..

I'll be currious what you find about your pumping needs.. I use a Taco 007 to push water to my shop floor [150' and 1" PAP] and through a 40 plate exchanger.. but for the house [150' and 1" PAP] I use a Grundfoss 26-96, which is about like a Taco 0010, that should be plenty.. personally I'd install a oo7 if you already have one, just use flanges with shut offs, so you can swap out a bigger pump if you decide you need it.. I'm betting you won't..

Greg L.

Thanks for the link to Pex al Pex. I'll give them a call today. I know Wisbro claims to be good, but I sure like the idea of an aluminum layer. I priced out "Donkey d1nk", the black insulation, about $4 a 6 foot length. Only about 50 feet needs insulation.
I'd like to get inventive and horizontally bore the 20 feet under the driveway.

The allied pipe link is a chinese manufacturer/company. When I was buying a year ago I found some descrepencies in their literature that led me to lose confidence. I ended up buying Kitec--American manufactured. The prices for the allied pipe on ebay were less than a Kitec brand Pex al pex.

A source for the Kitec pipe is:

I agree with Greg's comments about pump size--I have a 130' run (each way) of 1" Pex al pex between the coal and oil boilers and am using a Taco 007.

Freddy,

Here's a link to some pex al pex for you. This is probably where I'll buy mine.

http://www.pexsupply.com/categories.asp?cID=389&brandid=

I thought you were going to put the 130 in the basement?

More links, yippee!

Wellll, yes, call me wishy washy, I've decided to put it in the garage. It'll keep dust & sound out of the house, let me keep my cellar storage, allow us to keep oil on line in case I die & the wife marries a rich man, and will be easier to load the coal bin. Stay tuned.... I could revert tomorrow!

Don't change continuing to change - evolution is change

It keeps me tuned in for the next episode!

Freddy, The second ebay link you listed is where I bought mine. They may still have some even though it's not listed right now. It was $440,but shipping was about $130. I put mine in a 6" pipe also and put in 2 - 1"pipes for misc. wires.

Good looking job Biggreen.

I've made a couple of phone calls...had to leave messages.


I've decided to put the boiler on the roof with a solar igniter. A small catapult that follows the sun to *censored* itself will will load the coal each morning.
Tomorrow...the nuclear addition! Or, will it be, the unclear addition?

hi Freddy

just another one to fry your brain

Rehau Insuplex I used this for my install and 4 of my friends.....

can find this stuff on CC allis website they are out of down town herrickville,pa well kind of a suburb...
kinda if ya count the cows and deer.... http://www.ccallis.com
they are a rural lumber supplier cut there own ruff cut..... supplier of alot of farms around here
ask for chris allis for any info on the insulated pex web site was his idea

Another good source is McMaster-carr. They can deliver to me in LESS than 24 hours after I place an order. Don't know how they do that, but I like it. Heres a link to their PEX products...
http://www.mcmaster.com/#pex-tubing/=qqpiw

Chris F.

I'm all set. My system has been on line since Oct 21st. I ended up using Oxygen barrier Pex. At the time I needed it there was no pex-al-pex to be had in the USA.

I installed 170' of pipe last fall to our new outbuilding/garage/shop in preparation of a bituminous boiler installation: Undeground Pipes[/url]. It's [url]http://www.thermopex.com/ and I used the 1" size. It's $$$$, but it is extremely heavy-duty and very well insulated. I have no worries of water ever getting into it. The only issue it is also extremely stiff and awkward to handle. I have to wait until spring so the weather warms to make it flexible enough to finish routing into the garage. The 1" is enough for my needs as the house only has a 90k BTU natural gas furnasty and it does the job.

Chris

Be aware that many of the above referenced PEX products are ones the meet the ASTM Specification ASTM F876 and ASTM F877. They will work in many installations well if you pay attention to protection of your hydronic system components from oxygen migration. The oxygen in the air migrates by osmosis directly through the PEX tubing molecules. The more desirable PEX tubing is the one the meets ASTM spec F1281. This is the PEX-AL-PEX tubing and solves the oxygen migration problem by the AL barrier. It's more expensive but much more effective than the PEX tubing with an oxygen barrier, which is just a chemical coating on the exterior of the tubing with a molecular size small enough to block oxygen molecules. The problem is it can be scratched off during installation. So a cost trade off needs to be made comparing the more expensive PEX-AL-PEX vs. just PEX and a heat exchanger and/or bronze/stainless circulators. The damaging effects (corrosion like) of oxygen migration take time and it's effects may not be noticed for years.