Do I Need a Stainless Steel Liner for My Chimney?

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
msdan
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Post Thu. Oct. 01, 2009 12:04 pm

I have a three story home and am putting in a Harman mark II, I have been told that running ss liner the full length is for efficient draft and burning. Does it need to go the full length, or is a liner really not even neccesary. ( my chiminey is in great shape)


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coaledsweat
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Post Thu. Oct. 01, 2009 1:03 pm

msdan wrote:( my chiminey is in great shape)
You don't need it.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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Berlin
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Post Thu. Oct. 01, 2009 3:36 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
msdan wrote:( my chiminey is in great shape)
You don't need it.
... you don't want it. :)
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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2001Sierra
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Location: Wynantskill NY, 10 miles from Albany

Post Thu. Oct. 01, 2009 9:49 pm

I have been burning a hand fired stove for 27 years in an 8X8 clay tile chimney insulated with mineral insulation between block and tile. All tile mortar joints are refractory cement, which the mason said was unnecessary but I insisted on. There is absolutely no erosion or signs of wear on the liner. You just rub your hand on it and the clean tile shows through.Also the first tile was laid on a coating of refractory cement to keep the coal from eating through the footing. This was all specified by a 24 year old kid that did not know what he was talking about (me), 27 years ago.

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Berlin
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Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 1:39 am

wow, good job. it's rare that chimney's are built properly and it sounds like yours was spot on. That's very rare, especially for a 24 year old to know that.
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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009to090
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Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 1:59 am

2001Sierra wrote:I have been burning a hand fired stove for 27 years in an 8X8 clay tile chimney insulated with mineral insulation between block and tile. All tile mortar joints are refractory cement, which the mason said was unnecessary but I insisted on. There is absolutely no erosion or signs of wear on the liner. You just rub your hand on it and the clean tile shows through.Also the first tile was laid on a coating of refractory cement to keep the coal from eating through the footing. This was all specified by a 24 year old kid that did not know what he was talking about (me), 27 years ago.
Theres a chimney thats gonna last 200 years! Did it right the first time :D
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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SMITTY
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Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 6:30 am

My chimney is horrendous ... but it still pulls a nice draft & hasn't killed us ... yet.. I can't clean it because the brush will remove all the mortar! :lol:

Here is a pic of the second jog in chimney, just before it goes through the roof. Should be fun trying to rebuild!
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009to090
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
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Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 7:58 am

SMITTY wrote:My chimney is horrendous ... but it still pulls a nice draft & hasn't killed us ... yet.. I can't clean it because the brush will remove all the mortar! :lol:
Here is a pic of the second jog in chimney, just before it goes through the roof. Should be fun trying to rebuild!
Smitty, if the clay liner is ok, would it be possible to just re-point the brick on the outside of it? Hard to believe that chimney would be so deteriorated, unless the wrong morter was used to build it.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


Lola Coalfire
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Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 8:12 am

I expect, and depend on, miracles!
"Very interesting" I mumble as I read NEPA Crossroads. This forum seems to be an appropriate place to ask my question. After 2 decades of heating a huge old schoolhouse with coal stoker stoves I Schuylkill county, I am now in the Poconos in a 100 year old cottage.Coal, they don't know. But I do, or at least I thought I did.
I put in a hand-fired, designed and built a (fabulous) coal shed, filled it with 5 ton Blaschak nuts, and proceeded to light my stove last night. Probably my only talent is that I can light a coal stove. But, I couldn't keep it burning. The blue flames just barely made an appearance before the fire descended into it's long 5 hour agony of extinguishing. There is no draft! Yup, I could not get this stove installed without shelling out 2 K for a ss liner in my tile-lined stone inside-chimney. All the 'experts' I approached to install the stove insisted on it. They would not listen to my ranting about this being a COAL stove, not the wood stoves they are accustomed to. I drew on my own experience as well as the wisdom I'd read on this site, which I thank you all for. Still, no one would install it into the 25' 8" x 8" masonry chimney without putting in the ss liner. I caved. It does have a baro but no draft. I experimented with tin foil on the baro, but no improvement.
I would very much appreciate your input! Thank you so much, it's getting a bit nippy.
PS: I noticed the smoke comes out the door instead of going up when I opened it even a crack.
I expect, and depend on, miracles.

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coalkirk
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Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 8:31 am

Lola,

I agree you probably didn't need a SS chimney. The 8x8 clay lined should have worked fine. I'm assuming they installed a flexible SS liner, probably 6", in that flue? Did they insulate it?
As you said it sounds like your draft is very poor. Can you post some pictures of the chimney and the install?

Terry
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Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

Lola Coalfire
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Post Fri. Oct. 02, 2009 9:32 pm

Thanks for your reply, Terry. Yes, flex ss flue, not insulated. Guy said my stone chimney was providing insulation--pocket of air around the pipe. I'll try to get photos tomorrow. I'm pooped. Spent last night and all day today on the durn thing! BUT, I did finally get it going! I'm roasting out right now. The trick was building as big a wood fire as I could, filling the whole firebox with wood. That's different from how I got my stoker stoves going. So heating up the stack was assured before I started putting the coal in. Hoping that will be the solution.

Thanks again, I'll get those pictures of my set up.
Lola
I expect, and depend on, miracles.

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Paperboy
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Post Tue. Oct. 06, 2009 6:51 pm

SMITTY wrote:My chimney is horrendous ... but it still pulls a nice draft & hasn't killed us ... yet.. I can't clean it because the brush will remove all the mortar! :lol:

Here is a pic of the second jog in chimney, just before it goes through the roof. Should be fun trying to rebuild!
Smitty:

I think my cellars' got your attic beat for the most cobwebs !! :lol:

Perky
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Post Tue. Oct. 06, 2009 7:20 pm

Depends on your situation. My chimney goes through the center of the house and looks similar to Smitty's in the attic. Ran the same 5" SS Flex liner for 24 years with a Franco - did clean it every year. Just replaced with 6" for the new Kodiak. Draft is good. The new liner is guaranteed for life.

Lola Coalfire
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Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
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Location: Pocono Pines

Post Wed. Oct. 07, 2009 12:47 pm

Perky. My new stove is a Kodiak, also. The one with the hopper inside. You say you had an uninsulated ss flex liner for 24 years? Dang, that's impressive. What is your chimney height, type? Do you have a ss extension beyond the chimney itself? I do, but even before the 3 foot extension I had bad draft. Now it is getting cold at the top and my poor Kodiak just struggles along to keep a small fire going. The guy is supposed to install an insulated extension this weekend, hope that helps. Do you have a bi-metal on yours? I have to run home from work once or twice a day to make sure the fire is still going, make adjustments--like foil on the baro. Don't like doing that, or leaving it for any time, although I have yet to see a "real fire" in my Kodiak.
I intend to post some photos of my set up, as Terry requested, but haven't been able to yet. (I will, I will!) Something is very wrong. :cry:
Thanks for all and any comments.
Lola
I expect, and depend on, miracles.

Perky
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Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska/Franco Belge
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Location: NEPA - Poconos "the higher elevations" where we have are own weather!

Post Wed. Oct. 07, 2009 7:28 pm

Hey Lola
Nice to hear from another woman with a hand fired stove. I do have the hopper. My old stove had the gravity fed hopper also. When looking at new ones my options were either hand feeding (not!) or one with a hopper that held only 50 lbs (not much). My chimney height is 30 feet, it's a double flue cause I have another fireplace and coal stove (neither one is used). It is brick and cinderblock and is lined, beside the SS, and extends above my roof, don't have an extension only a SS cap that came with the liner. I'm still working on the starting procedure myself. Like I said in another post, my draft is good. I did get the bi-metal thermo, cause my old stove also had the thermo and I figured it would be easier to regulate while at work or away. I haven't had a problem with baro draft and never heard of using foil. Is it at the correct setting? Also, do you put a thermo on yours? I just use a magnetic stick-on type. The Alaska guy told me it should stay between 150-200 when operating day-to-day. My Franco used to run at 180. I read about some people that run at 300/40++. From past experience I think that is overfiring. What type/size of coal are you burning? Have you filled your hopper yet? Coal likes a deep bed, not shallow.
Good luck. I'll be trying to fire mine up for the season this weekend. Need to get the hang of this new baby so I can learn about the front drafts and bi-metal. I'm spoiled....I used to burn from October to May without it going out.....of course you have to pay attention.
Fran


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