Do I Need a Stainless Steel Liner for My Chimney?

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
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submarines
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Post Wed. Aug. 20, 2008 2:35 pm

I figured I would ask you guys. I have a masonary chimney, with a 8x8 clay tile liner. My intention was to put a damper seal kit in my existing fireplace and run the coal stove pipe thru it into the chimney. I was told by a company rep where I was buying this damper kit from, that it was going to destroy my chimney if I didn't run SS flue pipe all the way to the top.

Sales pitch to someone that is uninformed, or is this fact?

Thanks!
To bad ignorance isn't painful!


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LsFarm
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Post Wed. Aug. 20, 2008 3:41 pm

That guy is trying to sell you more SS. A masonry chimney with a clay liner will last many decades.. there are many in use that are 100 years old..

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

CapeCoaler
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Post Wed. Aug. 20, 2008 6:12 pm

You just need enough liner to get past the smoke chamber. Usually 5-8 feet will do.
Liners in chimneys are useful to reduce an oversize flue or repair a deficient flue. Yours seems to be neither.
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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Richard S.
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Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 7:38 am

This topic comes up frequently, seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about coal from the uniformed or they are just trying to sell you something you don't need.

One thing to note if you actually do need to line it a stainless steel liner will eventually rot out in a chimney utilizing coal.I don't have exact numbers but I've seen 10 years suggested and you'll have to replace it. You're average coal stove/stoker is going to go at least 2 decades and usually much longer so it will outlast the stainless steel liner by quite a margin. If the chimney is in that bad of shape in the long run you're better off ripping down and building a new one than repairing it with SS.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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submarines
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Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 1:46 pm

Thanks guys for the input! I had a feeling that he was trying to sell me something that I didn't need. So now I will have to find a damper adapter somewhere else. Any Ideas?
To bad ignorance isn't painful!

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WNY
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Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 2:00 pm

I am using my unlined chimney and it seems to work just fine. It's been there 100 years. and still in pretty good shape.
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

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Cap
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Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 2:55 pm

Reducing a 8" square clay to 6" round ss increased the drafting abilities of my external flue. I swear by it. Makes coal burning a breeze, even on warmer days.
Cap
Lehigh Twp.
Northampton Co., PA

siblay
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Post Tue. Aug. 26, 2008 7:04 pm

Capecoaler mentions that an SS liner is a way of getting around a deficient flue. Is SS a quick fix for a chimney with cracked or missing liner/tile or missing mortar? I'm thinking that would be the case, but how much heat would be thrown off by the liner, or, what is the "average" temp of exhaust gases in the flue? Wouldn't it still pose a hazard? Wouldn't one be better off to point or replace a crack/missing piece?
What is the actual makeup of a chimney and flue? Is it simply a lined brick tower or is there more to it? I've read entries on this forum from people with bricks missing and it poses no problem to others losing their house due to a chimney fire. Just wondering.


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LsFarm
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Post Tue. Aug. 26, 2008 7:42 pm

You won't have a chimney fire in a chimney that burns coal exclusively.. there is nothing combustible in coal exhaust, the fly ash is inert.. If a chimney has had a wood stove hooked to it in the past, then there may be some creosote [highly flamable] inside the chimney, this should be cleaned out before converting to coal use..

The temperatures of the exhaust from a coal burning device are much cooler than for a clean burning wood appliance.. Wood fires can be slowed down, but the smoke is full of creosote, and this quickly becomes a safety issue. You usually have to burn a wood appliance hot to keep the creosote issue under control. Coal burns relatively cool, and there is nothing in the exhaust gasses but some fly ash, Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Monoxide [this is deadly].

Greg L.
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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coaledsweat
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Post Tue. Aug. 26, 2008 7:55 pm

"Is SS a quick fix for a chimney with cracked or missing liner/tile or missing mortar?"
Yes, but not always the best.

"I'm thinking that would be the case, but how much heat would be thrown off by the liner, or, what is the "average" temp of exhaust gases in the flue?"
The liner would not have an effect on the temps unless it was insulated. The temps will vary by unit's output.

"Wouldn't it still pose a hazard? Wouldn't one be better off to point or replace a crack/missing piece?"
A broken tile is not usually a safety issue, unless the chimney is poorly constructed. It can however reduce the life expectancy of the chimney dramatically. Water can get into it and possibly freeze, this could take the chimney apart.

"What is the actual makeup of a chimney and flue? Is it simply a lined brick tower or is there more to it?"
Basically a brick or block support structure for a terra cotta tile liner, pretty simple.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

CapeCoaler
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Post Tue. Aug. 26, 2008 9:59 pm

Just want to clarify my point regarding 'deficient' chimneys.
Liners improve a chimney that is structurally sound.
They may just be an old unlined brick flue or a massive single chimney without separate flues for each appliance.
Structurally deficient chimneys are not fixed with a liner.
Coal fired devices run at relatively low temperatures.
We are discussing coal not wood fired devices.
Chimney fires are not an issue, unless you never cleaned/inspected the chimney as a wood burner.
Every situation is unique there is no 'one size fits all' solution.
If you are unsure/uncomfortable/unable consult a professional for assistance or a second opinion.
We all make mistakes and learn from others.
Remember the earth was once flat and the sun revolved around us!
The advise given is in context with the thread specific question.
In this case:

I figured I would ask you guys. I have a masonary chimney, with a 8x8 clay tile liner. My intention was to put a damper seal kit in my existing fireplace and run the coal stove pipe thru it into the chimney. I was told by a company rep where I was buying this damper kit from, that it was going to destroy my chimney if I didn't run SS flue pipe all the way to the top.

Sales pitch to someone that is uninformed, or is this fact?



I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I am surrounded by people who have stamps and extra letters at the beginning and end of their names.
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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FingerLakesStoker
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Post Fri. Aug. 29, 2008 7:34 am

I was just looking through this thread and I have a similar question. I have a Keystoker Direct Vent KA-6 that I am installing this weekend and I was wondering if I need to use Stainless Steel vent pipe with the Direct vent or is galvanized suitable for this application? My total run should be in the neighbor hood of 12' or less.
Mike

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Matthaus
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Post Fri. Aug. 29, 2008 7:43 am

IMO stainless is best but not a requirement. Galvenized is least desirable, would buy some heavy (20 or 22 gauge) black stove pipe and keep it cleaned and oiled every year, I bet you will get at least 5 years out of it maybe twice that. :)
Matthaus
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tboonie
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Post Fri. Sep. 19, 2008 8:41 pm

Would a stainless steel liner installed in a fireplace chimney need to be insulated the whole way up and down when connected to a coal stove or can it be just insulated at the very top and bottom?

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coaledsweat
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Post Fri. Sep. 19, 2008 9:23 pm

A bag of vermiculite is about $10, two bags might do it from top to bottom.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.


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