Chimney Liners & Massachusetts State Code?

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Devil505
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 2:03 pm

My daughter & son-in-law just bought a Harman TLC & are going to have a mason friend of theirs build a block chimney for them. The stove dealer says that a steel liner is required in Massachusetts. Is he right?
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video


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LsFarm
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 3:03 pm

That's got to be BS... if not move out of that state. Masonry chimneys will last a century burning coal.. a steel liner will rot away in 15-20 years, so a liner makes the chimney worse, not better..

Greg L
.
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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Freddy
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 3:21 pm

A new law in Maine says that ALL chimneys will have a stainless liner. When a new boiler is installed you must "bring it up to code". Sheer idiocy in my book.
Orrington, Maine
Fred

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

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Devil505
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 3:29 pm

LsFarm wrote:That's got to be BS... if not move out of that state. Masonry chimneys will last a century burning coal.. a steel liner will rot away in 15-20 years, so a liner makes the chimney worse, not better..

Greg L
.
I think you're right Greg. The stove place wanted $1,000.00 for the stove installation & told my daughter that the price included a "required" steel liner. The mason (who's a friend of my son-in-law's) will know the Mass. code & if a liner is required, he'll install it.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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Yanche
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 5:25 pm

Pure BS in Massachusetts. Here's the MA Code section from "780 CMR 3610 Chimneys, Fireplaces and Solid Fuel-Fired Applications"

Begin Quote

Flue lining (material): All masonry chimneys shall be lined with fireclay flue liners not less than 5/8 inch (15.9 mm) in thickness or with other approved liner of material that will resist, without cracking or softening, at a temperature of 1,800 deg. F(982 deg. C)

Note: Lined masonry chimneys may require additional metal liners when such chimneys convey the exhaust products of gas-fired or oil-fired appliances - refer also to 248 CNR or 527 CMR as applicable.

End Quote

READ THE CODE BOOK YOURSELF. IT'S NOT TRUE. Same in Maine.
Yanche
Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Stoker Boiler burning Anthracite Pea Coal

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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 5:39 pm

Well I guess the key there is gas or oil fired, no mention of coal.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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Devil505
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 6:02 pm

Yanche wrote:Pure BS in Massachusetts. Here's the MA Code section from "780 CMR 3610 Chimneys, Fireplaces and Solid Fuel-Fired Applications"
Thanks Yanche........I thought is was BS
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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vtec350
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 8:03 pm

It's BS, I just installed a masonary chimney and it's been inspected, passed and signed off on by the building insp.
"In this country,
you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money,
you get the power."


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Freddy
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Location: Orrington, Maine

Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 8:44 pm

I wish I could find the book for Maine. The state wants $85 for it and I can't find anyone that has a copy. My (mis) information came from two different licensed boiler men. Idiots? They're all over!
Orrington, Maine
Fred

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

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e.alleg
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 10:24 pm

They should have an additional code for use with coal.

Flue lining (material): All masonry chimneys shall be lined with fireclay flue liners not less than 5/8 inch (15.9 mm) in thickness or with other approved liner of material that will resist, without cracking or softening, at a temperature of 1,800 deg. F(982 deg. C)
When will an anthracite stoker's chimney get to 1,800 degrees? The answer I believe is never.
Burning coal is definitely worth the extra work involved.
"Good enough" is not good enough.

CapeCoaler
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Post Fri. Aug. 01, 2008 11:26 pm

The metal/SS liners are usually for high efficiency gas and oil furnaces with low stack temperatures and high moisture content. The mix tends to rot the joints in the clay liners.
You can use an insulated SS liner in an over-sized fireplace chimney to overcome a poor draft situation when installing an insert or stove in that fireplace.
A plain liner runs about $400-500. Add $300 for an insulation blanket.
**Broken Link(s) Removed**At $1000 for the stove install, liner install and a liner, not a bad price. The misinformation about it being required is where the scam starts.
So they are either crooks or they do not know about installing stoves. Either way I would steer clear of any "help" they offer
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

Paulie
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Post Sat. Aug. 02, 2008 2:05 am

BS sales pitch. I am putting in two stoves and a boiler. To my surprise :o , the codes were pretty straight forward.
I can even vent a solid fuel and liquid fuel into the same chimney ! The code is pretty specific about how to do it and
the capacity of the chimney. The book also states that it is not recommended.
I lined my chimneys with stainless liners. My house was built in 1780s, and the chimneys are sound. But something about
200 + year old lime stone mortar gives me the wheebies. Better to line now then refinance the house later to rebuild. Could
be that I am just paranoid.
Your local building department in your town can give you copies of everything you need to know for a safe and legal install.
Good Luck! 8-)

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Richard S.
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Post Sat. Aug. 02, 2008 2:30 am

Paulie wrote:Better to line now then refinance the house later to rebuild.
Paulie there is no concern with coal as far as your house burning down if that is what you are getting at. The only concern that I'm aware of with old chineys is flue gases seeping through joints into the home if you have a chimney on the inside of the house. In any event unless the chimney has aesthetic value I'd just rip it down and rebuild before lining it with SS. You're going to be replacing that steel in 10 to 20 years...
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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Adamiscold
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Post Sat. Aug. 02, 2008 8:05 am

What does it cost to build a chimney here in Mass for a coal stove?
Adam

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Devil505
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Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Sat. Aug. 02, 2008 8:08 am

Adamiscold wrote:What does it cost to build a chimney here in Mass for a coal stove?
My son-in-law was quoted $1500.00, but that was by a mason who's a friend.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video


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