Is Harman Giving People the Shaft?

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Steve.N
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman mkII
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Location: Crown Point, NY East side of the state about 130 miles above Albany

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 9:58 am

So far I have had no problem getting parts and accesories from harman
Life without oil heat is sweet !


rberq
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
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Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane
Location: Central Maine

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 10:19 am

Steve.N, it's good to hear you have had no trouble getting parts. That was a worry of mine, too.

Now, how about you order 1 each of the parts list for the Mk III, assemble them, and I'll be in to pick them up. :)
Simple answers for simple minds.

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LsFarm
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Location: Michigan

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 10:51 am

I feel bad not only for the Harman dealers, but also for Harman... this is alot like NOT playing your favorite numbers for the lottery, and your numbers get drawn..
This surge in stove/boiler sales will not last forever, like someone said, the products are 10-30 year or more items.. once a person buys, they will probably stay with what they have. There is some swapping of appliances, but not a lot, maybe 5% ?

So Harman is missing a big money-making opportunity that may not be there next year, or the year after. Not only are the turned-away-disappointed customers not going to come back, but some of the dealers may have to choose another product line in order to stay in business.. Pretty sad state of affairs.

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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stoker-man
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 11:20 am

With the re-introduction of the efm WCB-24, we thought we'd make a small quantity just to see what the market would want. The prototype should be welded up next week and already we've had to increase the initial run at least fourfold and it's not even being advertised yet, except through a thread in efm's forum and word of mouth to a few of our dealers.
‹(•¿•)›

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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 12:35 pm

LsFarm wrote: So Harman is missing a big money-making opportunity that may not be there next year, or the year after. Not only are the turned-away-disappointed customers not going to come back, but some of the dealers may have to choose another product line in order to stay in business.. Pretty sad state of affairs.

Greg L


What's ironic is that if you read one of those articles coal berner posted is the financial issues escalated because they "put all there eggs in one basket" as Graig Issod said from hearth.com said and produced many pellet units after the run on them when Katrina hit. The market dropped and they had 20,000 units sitting there and no one to sell them too. This was stated as the reason they had to sell. If that were today they could dump them probably in minutes.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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Freddy
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Location: Orrington, Maine

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 12:47 pm

I didn't realize that Harman had given delivery dates on some of these units to the dealers. To not be able to deliver on or near those dates is a bitter pill for the dealer to swallow. I wonder how Harman managed such a blunder as that?

One other general comment about being a manufacturer. Everyone knows when to hire more help, but solid, viable businesses have failed becuase management didn't recognize when it was time to lay people off. Then, all of a sudden it seems, they can't pay salaries or monthly bills and go bank-o. If they had down sized at the proper time they'd still be in business. It's no fun to fire good people.
Orrington, Maine
Fred

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 1:09 pm

Freddy wrote:To not be able to deliver on or near those dates is a bitter pill for the dealer to swallow
It's even more bitter pill to swallow if you're a customer and ordered a Harman a few weeks or months back with another brand sitting there and now you can't get either.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

Greentree3D
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Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 4:26 pm

Harman is not even operating in the new factory, it's being leased to a plastics company. The new owners don't want to get burned like Dane did after Katrina by investing millions in inventory and supplies and then losing contracts. That's why he had to sell as Coal Berner said several posts earlier.

According to an in law who works at Harman and also a guy I work with (who sat next to Dane Harman and several members of the Kimmel Coal family a few weeks ago at a wedding), this is the way business is going to be done from now on. Harman is not going to try and keep pace with a rush of orders and risk losing money. They are going to produce at their own pace and hope that the name "Harman" keeps people buying their stoves.

It's ashame since Dane built the business from the ground up but as someone else said a few bad business decisions and then bam! all of a sudden the banks are knocking on your door real quick looking for their money back and you've don't have many options.


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stoker-man
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Location: Lehigh Valley, PA

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 4:58 pm

I keep seeing the word Katrina. How does Hurricane? Katrina figure into all of this. They don't need stoves in NO.
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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 5:25 pm

There was run on everything after Katrina on a smaller scale than what you are seeing now, they don't need the stoves there but New Orleans, Mobile and other places n that area is major hub for oil not to mention all the oil platforms in the gulf. That was only time I ever seen the price of coal go up twice in one year and it went up lot. That was also the first time I actually had trouble getting coal in the fall, it was day to day for 2 months on the rice. We were taking it as fast as they could make it.

If you go back and find some old posts you'll find the same issues with delayed delivery of stoves.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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topper
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Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 7:49 pm

My Mom & I began looking at Harman pellet stoves & Hitzer coal stoves several months ago. We both decided to order Hitzer stoves which arrived here in northern Maine earlier this week. I suppose it was just dumb luck purchasing from Hitzer vs Harman - but sometimes a little luck is just fine...

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stoker-man
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Location: Lehigh Valley, PA

Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 8:39 pm

OK, now I got it. A threat of an oil shortage created an interest in coal after Katrina :oops:
‹(•¿•)›

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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Jul. 18, 2008 9:01 pm

Well the cost of oil went up too, think that was when it almost hit $3 for the first time. They had a big surge in pellet stove sales too, therewas a shortage of pellets then too...
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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coal berner
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Post Sat. Jul. 19, 2008 12:19 am

Greentree3D wrote:Harman is not even operating in the new factory, it's being leased to a plastics company. The new owners don't want to get burned like Dane did after Katrina by investing millions in inventory and supplies and then losing contracts. That's why he had to sell as Coal Berner said several posts earlier.

According to an in law who works at Harman and also a guy I work with (who sat next to Dane Harman and several members of the Kimmel Coal family a few weeks ago at a wedding), this is the way business is going to be done from now on. Harman is not going to try and keep pace with a rush of orders and risk losing money. They are going to produce at their own pace and hope that the name "Harman" keeps people buying their stoves.

It's ashame since Dane built the business from the ground up but as someone else said a few bad business decisions and then bam! all of a sudden the banks are knocking on your door real quick looking for their money back and you've don't have many options.

Thanks Greentree 3D I forgot about the Plastic company being in the New Harman Factory It is Not like this Just Happend
to Harman The 3 Overseas contracts that where loss where a few years ago before the new Factory was even built
Not very good Business sense on his Part It is a shame for him But he did get 29.5 millon and does get a % of stove sales
I can't feel that bad for Him
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal

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SMITTY
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Location: West-Central Mass

Post Sat. Jul. 19, 2008 9:57 am

:cry: I think I know why the Harman dealer left a message last night........gonna call them in a few minutes when they open. Sold the Mark I a couple weeks ago & the SF-250 was ordered at the same time.

I may be royally F 'ED :cry:
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