Coal burning, city girl style
- Scottsman
- Member
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu. Jan. 31, 2008 11:46 pm
- Location: NEPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler
It's the end of my 11th season burning coal--at first with a couple of hand-fired stoves, and now with an awesome Leisure Line stoker with Coal-Trol. But my wife's a city girl and is sick of the big appliance dominating the largest room of the house and keeping it from being the living room she really wants. Can's say as I blame her. The ashes, the fine film of coal dust everywhere making a mess. She likes saving money but this thing is too big, loud and ugly for her to want to mess with anymore. So she wants here living room back, which leaves me 3 options, which I'd like the coal-lovers opinion on:
1. Shut the stoker down, sell it and the Class A chimney and burn only oil. This is a terrible option, given this big drafty house that takes over 200 gallons a month to heat in a cold month.
2. Replace my oil fired boiler with a dual fuel boiler (coal and oil). I would love to, but in addition to the purchase of the DF boiler, a big obstacle is that my only basement chimney in the basement is a 6 inch flue, and all the decent sized steam boilers take 8". Also, the only way to the basement is through the kitchen and down the basement door, which is 22 inches wide. Most big boilers are too wide for that. And cutting a trap door in my living room to lower a boiler doesn't sound to aesthetically appealing (although my kids think a living room trap door would be awesome). Also, I have a 1 pipe steam system, so it has to be a steam boiler, which is limiting.
3. Find a way to make my existing setup dramatically better--less messy, less noisy, less of a footprint in the room. For this I am considering a pellet stove, since it would would be a lot less messy and less noise. But of course less heat and more $$ for fuel. Another option is what if I built a fireplace where the stoker is now and put in an insert? This could make a lot closer to the wall, couldn't it? And could I build it to tap into the Class A chimney I have there? Right now my stove pipe connects to teh outside T about 8' above the floor, which means it takes over the whole wall. If I built a fireplace, couldn't I lower the chimney so that the stove pipe comes out about 5' from the floor. She'd like to have a wall mounted TV screen right about where the stove pipe stuff is now. I see on Craiglist people selling the stones for a fireplace and nice stone mantles. She likes the look of a fireplace, too. But I don't know how hard they are to build. What do you guys think? There's gotta be some way for this country boy to still burn coal, but give the city girl her living room back. Here is my current setup.
1. Shut the stoker down, sell it and the Class A chimney and burn only oil. This is a terrible option, given this big drafty house that takes over 200 gallons a month to heat in a cold month.
2. Replace my oil fired boiler with a dual fuel boiler (coal and oil). I would love to, but in addition to the purchase of the DF boiler, a big obstacle is that my only basement chimney in the basement is a 6 inch flue, and all the decent sized steam boilers take 8". Also, the only way to the basement is through the kitchen and down the basement door, which is 22 inches wide. Most big boilers are too wide for that. And cutting a trap door in my living room to lower a boiler doesn't sound to aesthetically appealing (although my kids think a living room trap door would be awesome). Also, I have a 1 pipe steam system, so it has to be a steam boiler, which is limiting.
3. Find a way to make my existing setup dramatically better--less messy, less noisy, less of a footprint in the room. For this I am considering a pellet stove, since it would would be a lot less messy and less noise. But of course less heat and more $$ for fuel. Another option is what if I built a fireplace where the stoker is now and put in an insert? This could make a lot closer to the wall, couldn't it? And could I build it to tap into the Class A chimney I have there? Right now my stove pipe connects to teh outside T about 8' above the floor, which means it takes over the whole wall. If I built a fireplace, couldn't I lower the chimney so that the stove pipe comes out about 5' from the floor. She'd like to have a wall mounted TV screen right about where the stove pipe stuff is now. I see on Craiglist people selling the stones for a fireplace and nice stone mantles. She likes the look of a fireplace, too. But I don't know how hard they are to build. What do you guys think? There's gotta be some way for this country boy to still burn coal, but give the city girl her living room back. Here is my current setup.
-
- Member
- Posts: 6515
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
- Location: Cape Cod, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
- Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
how is the basement otherwise...
Enough height to walk in...
Cut a bilco door in the outside wall...
Gets you the steam coal boiler...
Add second flue to chimney...
Build outdoor boiler shed...
No steam option...
But gets you the space and dust free...
That fireplace option needs to be built on the outside...
to gain you the space you desire...
Enough height to walk in...
Cut a bilco door in the outside wall...
Gets you the steam coal boiler...
Add second flue to chimney...
Build outdoor boiler shed...
No steam option...
But gets you the space and dust free...
That fireplace option needs to be built on the outside...
to gain you the space you desire...
- coaledsweat
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 13763
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
Axemans have a 5" and 6" breech for the record.
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30293
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Get a reducer---8" to 6"---whatever you do that will work fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Move your current stove to basement. Hopefully it will be enough to heat your house?????????????????????????
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Auger is standard and love to make steam, too!...but not dual-fuel.
Chimney thimble height and steam 'drop-header' can be lower than a lot of others, however.
How is the oil boiler vented now? Is that the 6" you speak of?
- Scottsman
- Member
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu. Jan. 31, 2008 11:46 pm
- Location: NEPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler
If I go with the boiler, it would have to be a dual fuel. We get our hot water from our boiler now (DHW coil inside) and like it that way. We have 7 kids and that's a lot of hot water. In coal burning season I could save a lot by getting my water heated with coal. But in summer, need to have oil heating it.
My oil fired boiler in the basement is vented into a 6" stainless steel lined chimney. I don't know how wide the chimney is without the liner, but am thinking it's a bad idea to pull the liner, because now I'll have coal exhaust eating away at the chimney mortar. Should I worry about that? Also, I'd have to think about how to clean this chimney. I can brush my class A which my stoker is on chimney from the ground outside easy. Just take the Tee cap off and run the brush up. But the masonry chimney to the basement ends like 30 foot up there.
The basement boiler room is a little over 6" in height. If I could somehow get a EFM DF520 down there, would there be enough clearance to the steam header, or too tall? Also, what is the narrowest part of an EFM DF520 with it's jackets off? I could try to widen the basement door frame, but I think the walls around the steps are only about 30 inches.
I will try to add more pictures tomorrow.
My oil fired boiler in the basement is vented into a 6" stainless steel lined chimney. I don't know how wide the chimney is without the liner, but am thinking it's a bad idea to pull the liner, because now I'll have coal exhaust eating away at the chimney mortar. Should I worry about that? Also, I'd have to think about how to clean this chimney. I can brush my class A which my stoker is on chimney from the ground outside easy. Just take the Tee cap off and run the brush up. But the masonry chimney to the basement ends like 30 foot up there.
The basement boiler room is a little over 6" in height. If I could somehow get a EFM DF520 down there, would there be enough clearance to the steam header, or too tall? Also, what is the narrowest part of an EFM DF520 with it's jackets off? I could try to widen the basement door frame, but I think the walls around the steps are only about 30 inches.
I will try to add more pictures tomorrow.
- warminmn
- Member
- Posts: 8110
- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
You could keep your stove in the same room, move it to the side one way or the other and use pipe at an angle. Then she can have her TV where she wants it. If that would work, then the dust issue and thats usually a matter of being more careful removing the ash pan.... a cake pan under the ash door for starters. A container to put the ash pan in while you carry it out is another.
Get a quieter blower, or another remedy for that. Other than that your probably screwed the way you described things unless you spend big money. Nothing is free, its all give and take.
Get a quieter blower, or another remedy for that. Other than that your probably screwed the way you described things unless you spend big money. Nothing is free, its all give and take.
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
You could go a couple of days with the furnace off and see how she likes dressing in 3-5 layers of clothes. It'll make a believer real quick, LOL
- Scottsman
- Member
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu. Jan. 31, 2008 11:46 pm
- Location: NEPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler
Yeah, I'm thinking that spending all our Christmas money on fuel oil will get old quick. But she's got a good point. You want a living room that looks nice. Sooo, I'm thinking a good option might be to do an external bump out to accommodate a very attractive masonry fireplace that will house a nice coal burning insert that you can see the flames through. She is game for this. If it's a hand fired, then there will be only one motor running (instead of the feeder, combustion and convection blowers going all the time). I imagine building a masonry fireplace will be incredibly expensive, but if I have the plan and time I want to attempt it. Here is an outside view of my house. The SS class A chimney goes to my coal stove. The masonry chimney is SS lined and goes to my boiler in the basement.
Attachments
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
What boiler/fuel is in the basement? Do you have an adequate amount of baseboard or radiators?
My comment about being cold a bit is sort of a comment on our own history. We used a hand fired furnace that was supposed to be temporary and it was often cool/cold, though we worked hard.
It didn't take long before we were very anxious to enjoy the hard coal heat and convenience.
You're thinking about a bumpout for a fireplace insert, or still a freestanding stove?
As far as dust, some people oil their coal to cut down on dust. I don't, but maybe someone else can comment on the pros and cons? That might tick one box for you
My comment about being cold a bit is sort of a comment on our own history. We used a hand fired furnace that was supposed to be temporary and it was often cool/cold, though we worked hard.
It didn't take long before we were very anxious to enjoy the hard coal heat and convenience.
You're thinking about a bumpout for a fireplace insert, or still a freestanding stove?
As far as dust, some people oil their coal to cut down on dust. I don't, but maybe someone else can comment on the pros and cons? That might tick one box for you
- Scottsman
- Member
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu. Jan. 31, 2008 11:46 pm
- Location: NEPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler
Thanks. Sorry I was slow to respond. My work's been crazy.
The boiler in the basement burns oil. It has two tanks, and not a lot of extra room in the boiler room. The oil heat works fine when I'm not using my 1st floor stoker. But it uses a lot of oil. We have plenty of steam radiators. There are 1 pipe steam, so can't be converted to hot water, which means I'd have to get a steam rated boiler. The EFM DF520 would be ideal. I'm wondering, what if I pulled the current 6" chimney liner and had someone put an 8" in? Then I could run a EFM DF520. I would then be able to only burn oil in the summer, but otherwise get all my heat and hot water from the same boiler. I should do the math on the savings. Maybe in a few years I'd get it back.
Every now and then I see a DF520 for sale. But they are $3,500+ for a well used one.
The boiler in the basement burns oil. It has two tanks, and not a lot of extra room in the boiler room. The oil heat works fine when I'm not using my 1st floor stoker. But it uses a lot of oil. We have plenty of steam radiators. There are 1 pipe steam, so can't be converted to hot water, which means I'd have to get a steam rated boiler. The EFM DF520 would be ideal. I'm wondering, what if I pulled the current 6" chimney liner and had someone put an 8" in? Then I could run a EFM DF520. I would then be able to only burn oil in the summer, but otherwise get all my heat and hot water from the same boiler. I should do the math on the savings. Maybe in a few years I'd get it back.
Every now and then I see a DF520 for sale. But they are $3,500+ for a well used one.
-
- Member
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Sat. Oct. 25, 2014 11:22 am
- Location: Halifax, Pa
- Stoker Coal Boiler: axeman anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
If you are not dead set on an oil back up, an Axeman might be the way to go for you chimney size. You would need to determine your E.D.R. by measuring your radiators. Either way good luck with your up coming project.
- Scottsman
- Member
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Thu. Jan. 31, 2008 11:46 pm
- Location: NEPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler
Update: I checked into a Keystoker Zero Clearance stoker, but which would be much smaller footprint, but it would be smaller (60k vs my current 90k stoker) and would still have the noise of blowers, plus the additional noise of a power venter (which the dealer said is the only option for me, given my setup. Plus, pretty pricey.
I talked to a woodburning fireplace installer about a zero clearance wood burner (Kozy Heat Z42), but that's not an option either, since it would require a big chase for the unit plus a chase for the Class A chimney, she says.
So now I'm thinking--could I switch my basement boiler to vent through my Class A stainless chimney? If I did that, could I get a mason to build a fireplace for an insert which taps into my SS lined masonry chimney? Or am I just nuts?
I talked to a woodburning fireplace installer about a zero clearance wood burner (Kozy Heat Z42), but that's not an option either, since it would require a big chase for the unit plus a chase for the Class A chimney, she says.
So now I'm thinking--could I switch my basement boiler to vent through my Class A stainless chimney? If I did that, could I get a mason to build a fireplace for an insert which taps into my SS lined masonry chimney? Or am I just nuts?