CO levels?

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swyman
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Post by swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 9:24 am

I recently did a shutdown for cleaning but before I did my boy unplugged the power vent on accident. I did not know he did it at the time and boiler was running. If draft gets low I, well my wife can smell a little sulfer and I know I need to turn up PV. Well while we were working in the boiler room, I could smell it and my throat got scratchy...I guess you could call it that but I could feel it in my throat so I immediately looked at PV and seen it was not running and plugged back in. As it should, my low draft safety switch tripped and killed the boiler. But my concern is I have a CO detector (brand new 4 weeks ago) with the PPM of CO and it still read 0? The detector is located about 4' off the floor (8' ceiling) and 6' from the boiler hopper. If I can smell sulfur and feel it in my throat, shouldn't that meter have picked up something? This is not the first time either, some of you may have seen back at Thanksgiving time I was doing a cleanup and had the refractory cover off and boiler fired up (burned my arm hairs!) so all that CO just going in the room for a minute or so and read 0 then, felt that in the throat also. Shouldn't it read something?

 
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Post by StokerDon » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 9:48 am

It's not the CO that you smell, it's the other lighter than air gasses. Remember, CO is heavier than air so you want your CO detector to be mounted low. Think of it this way, if your CO detector is 4 feet above you basement floor, your whole basement has to fill with CO until it reaches 4 feet deep. Then the detector can read it.

-Don

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 9:57 am

Myth
Carbon monoxide is heavier than air, so CO detectors should not be placed on the ceiling or high on the wall.

Fact
CO is slightly lighter than air. However, studies have shown no significant difference in measurements based on what height CO detectors are mounted. Different manufacturers recommend different mounting locations, and you should always follow the manufacturers’ recommendation.

CO has a molar mass of 28.0, and air has an average molar mass of 28.8. The difference is so slight that CO is found to evenly distribute itself indoors. It is worth mentioning that CO indoors is usually generated from incomplete combustion (heat source) and therefore traveling in a warm air stream. Warm air is more buoyant and does rise. Coupling this fact with the knowledge that CO is lighter than air… I personally have my CO detector located on the ceilings.
https://healthybuildingscience.com/2013/02/22/car ... ide-facts/

 
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Post by swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 10:55 am

Interesting!


 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 11:15 am

Another interesting article comparing CO and CO2 which are often confused for each other.

http://www.indsci.com/the-monitor-blog/carbon-mon ... n-dioxide/

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 11:16 am

Yes, a well known fact that placement height is not important. My CO alarm does do double duty however.. If placed close to the dog dish you get warnings of when the animal passes wind. This enables early avoiding actions.

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swyman
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Post by swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 1:47 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 11:16 am
Yes, a well known fact that placement height is not important. My CO alarm does do double duty however.. If placed close to the dog dish you get warnings of when the animal passes wind. This enables early avoiding actions.
Haha, now I'm going to have to try that! I remember going through confined space training 25 years ago as an apprentice and I let one go in class with a hand held air monitor and it went crazy!

 
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Post by rberq » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 10:40 pm

swyman wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 9:24 am
As it should, my low draft safety switch tripped and killed the boiler. But my concern is I have a CO detector (brand new 4 weeks ago) with the PPM of CO and it still read 0? ... Shouldn't it read something?
If it is burning cleanly, I don't know that you would have a lot of CO. I choked off my stovepipe with a damper a couple years ago, and it was pretty unpleasant breathing the leaking fumes, but the CO detectors registered nothing.


 
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Post by Lightning » Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 4:07 am

Plus most detectors will read zero until the concentration goes above a particular level. For some I believe it's 30 ppm.

 
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Post by swyman » Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 6:39 am

rberq wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 10:40 pm
If it is burning cleanly, I don't know that you would have a lot of CO. I choked off my stovepipe with a damper a couple years ago, and it was pretty unpleasant breathing the leaking fumes, but the CO detectors registered nothing.
Never thought of that, I feel it is burning very cleanly.

 
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Post by coalkirk » Wed. Jan. 02, 2019 8:46 am

The thresholds for CO alarms to sound is surprisingly high.

Carbon monoxide levels that will set off your alarm

Carbon Monoxide Level Alarm Response Time
40 PPM 10 hours
50 PPM 8 hours
70 PPM 1 to 4 hours
150 PPM 10 to 50 minutes
400 PPM 4 to 15 minutes

Here is what happens to you at various levels.

50 PPM None for healthy adults. According to the Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA), this is the maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure for healthy adults in any eight-hour period.
200 PPM Slight headache, fatigue, dizziness, and nausea after two to three hours.
400 PPM Frontal headaches with one to two hours. Life threatening after three hours.
800 PPM Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes. Unconsciousness within two hours. Death within two to three hours.
1,600 PPM Headache, dizziness and nausea within 20 minutes. Death within one hour.

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Wed. Jan. 02, 2019 9:34 am

coalkirk wrote:
Wed. Jan. 02, 2019 8:46 am
The thresholds for CO alarms to sound is surprisingly high.

Carbon monoxide levels that will set off your alarm

Carbon Monoxide Level Alarm Response Time
40 PPM 10 hours
50 PPM 8 hours
70 PPM 1 to 4 hours
150 PPM 10 to 50 minutes
400 PPM 4 to 15 minutes

Here is what happens to you at various levels.

50 PPM None for healthy adults. According to the Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA), this is the maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure for healthy adults in any eight-hour period.
200 PPM Slight headache, fatigue, dizziness, and nausea after two to three hours.
400 PPM Frontal headaches with one to two hours. Life threatening after three hours.
800 PPM Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes. Unconsciousness within two hours. Death within two to three hours.
1,600 PPM Headache, dizziness and nausea within 20 minutes. Death within one hour.
Thank you for the post! These numbers and effects is very useful information.

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