Themometer on your hand fed

 
charlesosborne2002
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Posts: 400
Joined: Sat. Jan. 24, 2015 11:22 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: natural gas central forced air

Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 7:45 am

Thanks, Lightening. My stove does not have secondary air, though it does have a damper that can bypass the side and back passageways. Opening this lets the hot gas go right to the flue (updraft mode), so I guess that affects wasted heat and fuel if it is open when it is not needed. Maybe the flue temp will tell me if the draft is strong or weak--as you say, to keep the fire burning at low stove temps? It may be that a slow burn is not supporting enough flue temp to keep the draft (and the fire) going. So it is a matter of balancing enough updraft to stay lit, but not enough to waste fuel? Is the right pipe temp strictly a matter of trial and error, or are there ballpark figures?
Lightning wrote:
Sat. Aug. 25, 2018 9:49 pm
Basically, monitoring the stove temp is a useful tool to help you run your stove more effectively thru trial and error. For example, thru experience you'll learn that when it's 30 degrees outside maybe you need to run the stove temp at 350 to maintain 70 degrees in the house. When it's zero outside maybe 550 on the stove is needed. Then when it's 55 outside maybe only 200 on the stove is plenty. Also, you'll notice how much primary combustion air is needed to achieve those temperatures and you'll be able to anticipate how hot to run your stove for given conditions outside. Another handy thing you'll pick up on is tending times. Maybe at 200 degrees on the stove you can get a 24 hour burn no problem. At 350 maybe you can get 18 hours. At 5-600 maybe you can only get 12 hours. Thru running your stove day in day out you'll learn all these neat things and by noting the stove temp you'll be able to give your stove what it needs to keep you both happy. Be the fire.

When it comes to the flue pipe temp there are a lot of shades of gray. Location of the thermometer from the stove (distance wise) will impact the temperature. Reading a vertical vs a horizontal pipe will be different and any convection currents in the room will impact it. I use the pipe temp to help adjust secondary combustion air. I've noticed that with excessive secondary air the pipe temp will rise indicating that more heat mass is being carried up the chimney. With less secondary air the pipe temp will come down slightly indicating that heat is spending more time in the burn chamber where it will radiate to the room (or convection air in my case). But some secondary air is needed for optimum combustion efficiency so there is a fine line there.

That's what goes on in my mind anyways lol.

 
charlesosborne2002
Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat. Jan. 24, 2015 11:22 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: natural gas central forced air

Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 8:12 am

OK, Vig--thanks. I think I've got it. What is misleading to the beginner is that the stove thermostat measures stove heat--not room heat directly, so the setting will be changed for changing weather (unlike a thermostat on gas central heat). It takes experience to know what setting on air intake will maintain the desired room heat under different outdoor temps. It is sort of like an electric space heater with 1000 watt and 1500 watt settings. When the weather is cold you may need to set it on 1500 watts to get the room temp you want. The coal stove is run at hotter surface temp and stronger updraft in cold weather--to maintain a given room temp.
The IR picture is interesting. The radiant output on my wood stove has been far greater in front also, as there is no jacket or shield there--but also (I have read) ceramic glass actually transmits more heat than iron does. Makes sense if you consider that light passes right through, and light is radiant energy of a sort.
Does the damper for side draft work in degrees (partly open), or is it just open or closed?
VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 12:52 am
Yes it does depend on if the stove is damped down (side draft). My stove gets damped down as soon as I see strong blue flames shortly after adding coal. Also I do not mess with the air inlet. Once I establish a fire I let the thermostat do its job and regulate the stove temperature. The adjustment rod is usually a few degrees of angle left or right of vertical throughout the season. It is adjusted for changes in outdoor temps when they swing maybe 15-20 degrees, otherwise it stays put. YMMV. Lightning (above post :yes: ) describes the change results well.

What do I do with the mag reading - well I take both an use the shelf reading as a reference point, not an exact temp. I get a feel for when it says, say 400*, my IR will read 600 at the middle of the griddle. You'll have to get a feel for your setup. The temps will vary with heating load.

The flue pipe temp is something I've learned I didn't have to be too concerned with. I check it with my IR where I have a ~3" single wall section near the ceiling adapter 6' above the stove. IIRC, low of 125 for warm and maybe 180 full output (700 griddle). Again, rberg stated it's most important in warmer weather. You need to maintain a minimum temp for good draft when it's warm out. You'll have to learn what works for your setup, just watch the fire - it'll give you an idea of what it needs for draft and temperature output.

I put the rear heat shield on both VC stoves I've had to create some directional air movement. I think it helps wash more heat off the entire stove. Most of the radiant energy comes off the front of the stove where it's single wall cast iron. My current set up needs the rear shield for the reason you stated - clearance. Also why I have double wall SS pipe. Here is a picture taken in "IR" mode showing the radiant energy lighting the room at night. It's really just a mode on the wife's iPad camera.
Image Image

 
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VigIIPeaBurner
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Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker(down)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 10:07 am

The damper plate has only 2 positions; open/updraft and closed/side drafts. Like you stated, IR is a wavelength of the light energy spectrum and radiates immediately thru the glass. Combustion gas is convective energy and takes time to transfer to the CI which then radiates IR and convective energy. When it's open the flue temps will be much higher and heating capacity will be wasted with the combustion gasses washing up the chimney quickly. The stove will run cooler and the combustion air control will respond slowly. Closed, the heat stay in the stove and available for space heating for a longer time.

The thermostatic coil controlling the position of the air inlet flap is pretty much a set it and forget it control (credit Ron Popeil!). Once the weather settles the coil will adjust how much combustion air is fed to the firebox. If the heated space cools the coil will contract opening the flap and gradually feed combustion air to the fire increasing the surface temp of the stove. More heat will wash off the stove until the room and the stove warms. At that point the coil expands and gradually closes the flap.


 
charlesosborne2002
Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat. Jan. 24, 2015 11:22 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: natural gas central forced air

Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 9:22 pm

VigII, what is that under your stove on the stove board?
VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 12:52 am
Yes it does depend on if the stove is damped down (side draft). My stove gets damped down as soon as I see strong blue flames shortly after adding coal. Also I do not mess with the air inlet. Once I establish a fire I let the thermostat do its job and regulate the stove temperature. The adjustment rod is usually a few degrees of angle left or right of vertical throughout the season. It is adjusted for changes in outdoor temps when they swing maybe 15-20 degrees, otherwise it stays put. YMMV. Lightning (above post :yes: ) describes the change results well.

What do I do with the mag reading - well I take both an use the shelf reading as a reference point, not an exact temp. I get a feel for when it says, say 400*, my IR will read 600 at the middle of the griddle. You'll have to get a feel for your setup. The temps will vary with heating load.

The flue pipe temp is something I've learned I didn't have to be too concerned with. I check it with my IR where I have a ~3" single wall section near the ceiling adapter 6' above the stove. IIRC, low of 125 for warm and maybe 180 full output (700 griddle). Again, rberg stated it's most important in warmer weather. You need to maintain a minimum temp for good draft when it's warm out. You'll have to learn what works for your setup, just watch the fire - it'll give you an idea of what it needs for draft and temperature output.

I put the rear heat shield on both VC stoves I've had to create some directional air movement. I think it helps wash more heat off the entire stove. Most of the radiant energy comes off the front of the stove where it's single wall cast iron. My current set up needs the rear shield for the reason you stated - clearance. Also why I have double wall SS pipe. Here is a picture taken in "IR" mode showing the radiant energy lighting the room at night. It's really just a mode on the wife's iPad camera.
Image Image

 
User avatar
VigIIPeaBurner
Member
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 10:49 am
Location: Pequest River Valley, Warren Co NJ
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker(down)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 11:16 pm

A cake pan. I'm baking an ashkake :lol:

It really is a cake pan. With the swing out ash pan I often over fill a corner and the high spot gets scraped off and falls on the hearth pad. If I clean it up I end up with more airborn ash than if I let it sit in the cake pan and empty it whenever. I pull the cake pan out as far as the ash pan swings out, to the job, remove the ash pan with the cover, empty the ash pan, replace it and push the cake pan back under the stove mostly out of sight. Hearth pad stays mostly clean a lot longer and so does the furniture.

 
charlesosborne2002
Member
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat. Jan. 24, 2015 11:22 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: natural gas central forced air

Post by charlesosborne2002 » Mon. Aug. 27, 2018 10:41 am

Brilliant.
VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 11:16 pm
A cake pan. I'm baking an ashkake :lol:

It really is a cake pan. With the swing out ash pan I often over fill a corner and the high spot gets scraped off and falls on the hearth pad. If I clean it up I end up with more airborn ash than if I let it sit in the cake pan and empty it whenever. I pull the cake pan out as far as the ash pan swings out, to the job, remove the ash pan with the cover, empty the ash pan, replace it and push the cake pan back under the stove mostly out of sight. Hearth pad stays mostly clean a lot longer and so does the furniture.

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