Wall Darkenning Possibly Due to the Condensation in Chimney

 
jasius
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Post by jasius » Mon. Mar. 27, 2017 9:20 pm

So thanks to the members of this forum I enjoyed first warm Winter in our new home.

Now it's time to ask another question. Last Summer I noticed darkening of the brick wall underneath where coal stove exhaust pipe goes into. It was bizarre and I suspected rain coming inside since that thing would become dark and visibly damp when it was raining outside. I put a cap on the chimney - did not work, still was dark and moist when raining outside.

I forgot over the Winter but today I tried making coal stove work again after few days of standstill. That was a nightmare since the room was much colder than the outside and it took me forever. But then I noticed during getting the stove working the moisture literally condensing on the walls inside the stove. So I think it's related. I think somehow moisture from warmer air outside gets drawn inside my chimney and condenses - by the way my pipe also is visibly corroded (not by the sulfur in coal since I haven't touched the stove in 2 years after I moved in since I did not know how to run it). So it must be moisture.

So my question is: what is it I am observing and how to deal with it. I am afraid it will damage my walls. I attached the pic

thanks all

Jonas

Attachments

20170327_211133.jpg

dark wall under the pipe

.JPG | 93.3KB | 20170327_211133.jpg


 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Mon. Mar. 27, 2017 9:27 pm

If the exposed chimney is brick, many common bricks will absorb water like a sponge. Cap makes no difference. Painting the brick with the right paint will stop it.

 
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blrman07
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Post by blrman07 » Tue. Mar. 28, 2017 7:17 am

Sounds like your chimney is drawing the outside air down into the stove. I had a wood burner in a basement that was always cold and I thought burning some wood down there would help. I had exactly the same problem. Horrible to get the stove lit until I discovered that if I opened the basement door (it had no windows which I hated) and put a propane torch in the firebox for 5 minutes first to warm up the air and get a draft going. Then I could light the wood without getting smoked out. If I got in a hurry and didn't pre warm that stove then the stove was not going to light and I was going to smoke us out.

Probably your house is tight and your not getting enough makeup air. Try opening a window during light off and put that torch in there to get a flow going up the chimney and I believe you'll have much less trouble.

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Mar. 28, 2017 2:35 pm

Do you have an IR temp gun? I wonder if you took temp readings of that area under the pipe (where the condensation is occurring) if that brick (for whatever reason) is colder than the bricks around it, where the condensation is not occurring.. It seems to me the bricks would need to be cold for condensation to form on them. Unless the moisture is coming directly thru the brick from outside. I think your first step to solving the problem is to see if possibly the bricks are just cold, causing condensation to form from moisture in the surrounding air. Where is the ground level directly on the other side of that area below the stove pipe? or is that an interior chimney?

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Tue. Mar. 28, 2017 2:41 pm

blrman07 wrote:Sounds like your chimney is drawing the outside air down into the stove. I had a wood burner in a basement that was always cold and I thought burning some wood down there would help. I had exactly the same problem. Horrible to get the stove lit until I discovered that if I opened the basement door (it had no windows which I hated) and put a propane torch in the firebox for 5 minutes first to warm up the air and get a draft going. Then I could light the wood without getting smoked out. If I got in a hurry and didn't pre warm that stove then the stove was not going to light and I was going to smoke us out.

Probably your house is tight and your not getting enough makeup air. Try opening a window during light off and put that torch in there to get a flow going up the chimney and I believe you'll have much less trouble.
Maybe right .. I know my Hitzer sucks up mucho air. Its harder to close exterior doors when its running.

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Mar. 28, 2017 2:57 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote: Its harder to close exterior doors when its running.
Na, that's probably house stack effect causing that. I've noticed that too. :)

 
jasius
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Post by jasius » Tue. Mar. 28, 2017 5:44 pm

Lightning wrote:Do you have an IR temp gun? I wonder if you took temp readings of that area under the pipe (where the condensation is occurring) if that brick (for whatever reason) is colder than the bricks around it, where the condensation is not occurring.. It seems to me the bricks would need to be cold for condensation to form on them. Unless the moisture is coming directly thru the brick from outside. I think your first step to solving the problem is to see if possibly the bricks are just cold, causing condensation to form from moisture in the surrounding air. Where is the ground level directly on the other side of that area below the stove pipe? or is that an interior chimney?
Thank you. I will try to measure it. This red brick wall is an inside wall. Chimney then goes out into the external brick chimney that is white brick. I think the ground level is a little bit lower on the other side for the white brick chimney than the black spot is situated. So really it's not the problem lighting it up, it is more a problem of structural integrity whether condensation is not ruining my wall. I will wait for the proper conditions - it's usually when raining outside and my room is colder than the outside - and measure the temperatures.

By the same token, can anybody recommend a simple inexpensive IR T-meter?


 
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Post by michaelanthony » Tue. Mar. 28, 2017 6:57 pm


 
jasius
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Post by jasius » Sat. Jun. 17, 2017 7:44 pm

OK, realized what is happening and need your advice. Today very hot and very humid, air conditioning runs inside, there is condensation in the regular spot. I think the hot air in the chimney gets cooled down and condenses the humidity.

So my question is: how do I plug the chimney to prevent this phenommenon so no hot moist air from outside gets in?

thanks

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Sat. Jun. 17, 2017 8:20 pm

I am curious if you leave a small opening in the stove so that there is some air movement in your chimney thru your stove. I get moisture in my pipe if I dont leave a vent open on my Chubby stove. My other stove I unhook the pipe so it has a draft all summer, but that is because its a stainless steel chimney. Please remember that I have a great stove draft here that you may not have.

 
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Post by jasius » Sat. Jun. 17, 2017 8:29 pm

Well, I actually did the opposite last Summer where I blocked the air damper (the one behind the stove that sucks in more air if there is a wind outside).

I can simply open it and prop it. But what's the reasoning here?

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Sat. Jun. 17, 2017 9:24 pm

Air flow, to keep it dry. Its kind of a natural fan drying affect. If you have back draft it wont work cuz your house may smell like soot. I would screen the opening (its called a barometric damper) to keep bees, birds, and bats out of your house if you try it. Just some light screen with a tight rubber band or wire wrapped around it will work.

Rain will still come down your chimney but it might help if its just humidity causing the problem. Like I mentioned before, it may not work in every situation but it works for me.

 
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Post by Den034071 » Sun. Jun. 18, 2017 7:36 am

Jas sent you a P M check it .

 
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Post by jasius » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 3:47 pm

OK, I have chimney sweep people come in. They claim they need/can fix all the seams and cracks they found in the chimney sides and cap. They claim the brick is getting brittle since moisture gets in. They do not guarantee the problem will go away.

Another company told me that terracotta liner is not enough. He said I need stainless steel liner to counter coal heat.

Actually, neither convinced me since neither identified the exact problem. Can anybody suggest a reliable chimney inspector that could evaluate the actual problem?

 
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Post by Qtown1835 » Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 9:41 pm

jasius wrote:
Mon. Nov. 20, 2017 3:47 pm

Another company told me that terracotta liner is not enough. He said I need stainless steel liner to counter coal heat.
That's funny. Flue temps for coal are at least 1/2 that of a wood fire.


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