Long Distance Coal Vac/ Blower Ideas Needed

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Kungur
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Post by Kungur » Sat. Feb. 06, 2016 8:19 am

After reading the threads on the Coal Vac projects I was wondering about an idea and thought the "brain trust" here could help me out.
My coal is about 80-90 feet from the chute that feeds my basement coals bins. I have 5 bins that I move with a pallet lift.
Wondering about blowing or sucking the coal over that distance to eliminate the work of shovel and wheelbarrow. The system would be assembled 1x per year move the coal then dis-assembled.
So do you think this is a feasible project? what would it take?
Thanks in advance.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sat. Feb. 06, 2016 9:51 am

Rice size coal for your KAA-2. ;)
Yes, very easy to do.

50' 1-1/2" swimming pool hose, shopvac, dust deputy and coal canister/receiver. :idea:

The canister/receiver must not collapse under vacuum. :idea:
No use to repeat all that has already been said elsewhere, ask any and all new q's otherwise. ;)

This the line-up...pickup tube-50' hose-canister-short hose-dust deputy-short hose-shop vac
(dust deputy and shop vac sits on floor)

This is a small/somewhat slow setup, but if you want faster it can be scaled up $$bigger/faster$$.

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Sat. Feb. 06, 2016 10:37 pm

I am curious if the 80 - 90' run of 1-1/2" hose will need more than the normal size 6.5 hp shop vac. Kinda like you need a circulator sized to overcome pipe friction in a boiler, seems you may need a second shop vac for that long of a run.

It'll be a good experiment! :clap:

 
waldo lemieux
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Post by waldo lemieux » Sat. Feb. 06, 2016 11:27 pm

I heard tell of a gal over FF's way that can suck a golf ball through a garden hose......... :woot:


 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sun. Feb. 07, 2016 12:59 am

Not going to get a system for blowing/sucking stuff 80 feet away. Think of another solution.

Coal on pallets? Packaging?
Distance to cover paved? Grass? Mud? Land flat? Coal stored on ground or near ground level? These 1 ton pallets? Have a lawn tractor? Have vehicle that can tow?

 
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Pauliewog
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Post by Pauliewog » Sun. Feb. 07, 2016 1:14 am

Can you post some pictures showing your coal pile in relation to your basement chute?
Also pictures of the bins and the distance from the top of these bins to your basement ceiling..

Paulie

 
Kungur
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Post by Kungur » Sun. Feb. 07, 2016 7:16 am

Thanks for your replies. Maybe this distance is too great to consider this option. My current way of handling is shovel coal into the wheelbarrow from the outside bin. Wheel it about 70-80 feet to my access cover in where I have my temporary chute. Shovel the coal in. It takes my approx. 16 wheelbarrow loads to fill 1 basement bin which holds about 1.25 tons. Though not a back breaking chore as I can stop and start and just do it on nice days in the Fall.
Maybe I should not change things and just use it as one of my workout days!

 
Den034071
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Post by Den034071 » Sun. Feb. 07, 2016 12:52 pm

See the post jim from Macungie .His bin next to foundation is a super setup .I believe he said he had 1500 bucks in it .Check it out .jack


 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Feb. 07, 2016 1:33 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:Not going to get a system for blowing/sucking stuff 80 feet away. Think of another solution.
WRONG

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Feb. 07, 2016 1:45 pm

Kungur wrote:Thanks for your replies. Maybe this distance is too great to consider this option. My current way of handling is shovel coal into the wheelbarrow from the outside bin. Wheel it about 70-80 feet to my access cover in where I have my temporary chute. Shovel the coal in. It takes my approx. 16 wheelbarrow loads to fill 1 basement bin which holds about 1.25 tons. Though not a back breaking chore as I can stop and start and just do it on nice days in the Fall.
Maybe I should not change things and just use it as one of my workout days!
Prove it to your self.

Go to Home Depot and get 9 pieces of gray Carlon PVC conduit. (save the store receipt so you are able to return should that be the case)

Run the pipe across your intended route but only dry-fit the included couplings lightly for this test.

Also get some cheap 1-1/2" hose and figure a way to connect it to a heavy duty shop vac and have enough to use on the pickup end too.

Do the test AND THEN you will know the feasibility and then go from there...nothing ventured...nothing gained. ;)

 
lzaharis
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Post by lzaharis » Tue. Feb. 16, 2016 11:52 am

Kungur wrote:After reading the threads on the Coal Vac projects I was wondering about an idea and thought the "brain trust" here could help me out.
My coal is about 80-90 feet from the chute that feeds my basement coals bins. I have 5 bins that I move with a pallet lift.
Wondering about blowing or sucking the coal over that distance to eliminate the work of shovel and wheelbarrow. The system would be assembled 1x per year move the coal then dis-assembled.
So do you think this is a feasible project? what would it take?
Thanks in advance.
=========================================================================================

You can go the car wash vacuum route and use the dust deputy in the mix of things.

A car wash vacuum will have 1, 2, or three vacuums in series for suction.

It is properly referred to as HG pressure gradient generation.

NOW what you do:

1. lay out the suction hose
2. connect suction hose to the dump tank with the flapper valve
3. exhaust hose from the dump tank to the dust deputy
4. then the suction line to the shop vacs

5. connect all three shop vacs in series parallel
One common header pipe for the inlets of the shop vacs.

6. and then you can just install the mufflers on the three shop vacs and go from there.

You may want more than three shop vacs depending on how wet the coal is.suction
connect the three shop vacs in "series parallel" and then
The coal can fall into the bin.

You can combine the exhaust piping together to create the combined pressure gradient generation to create the proper suction for the systems to operate in tandem with a common header for both the inlet and exhaust to create the pressure gradient required for HG service

You need to create enough pressure gradient to make it work and installing a manomometer probe on the piping is a must because the coal is lazy just like water and will settle out.

This is referred to as "siltation" in a pipe and the dust will settle out and collect and reduce the available cross section of the pipe to the HG which will require a pipe brush or whacking the pipe to break the grip of the coal dust.

Using a leaf blower to create a high wind speed(velocity in feet per second) in the pipe is an option but you would need a vacuum and the dust deputy to control the dust as the coal exits the pipe by installing a an open cyclone ahead of the dust deputy( a second dust deputy without the pail ahead of the dust deputy connected to the shop vac.

Better to wait until the summer to build it unless you have a full basement to experiment to the pipe lengths and connections

Just remember "more shop vacs gives you more suction" to do the job and keeping the piping solid to the end where the flexible hose is is best used

you can use pipe unions in the plastic pipe lengths to connect the pipe lengths every time you need to move coal and still have a good seal and find where the suction is weakest to tighten the unions up as you need to while working to vacuum the coal

You can really get fussy and use your manomometer to observe the generation of the pressure gradient while vacuuming the coal.

You will be able to suck the flexible hose shut with the HG created so using a short flexible hose with the pipe lengths to the three shop vacs would be the preferred method.
=====================================================================

SO:

in one example:

one flexible hose length to vacuum the coal

connection to the first plastic pipe length

plastic pipe lengths with unions for each joint

pipe connection to dump tank dust deputy

shop vac hose to header pipe which is connected to 3-4 shop vacs inlet hoses

3-4 shop vacs

shop vacs have mufflers in exhausts

You need "must have enough amperage" available in the electrical outlets for the four shop vacs.

Preferably you have four outlets wired into the panel box with or without heavy extension cords to the 3-4 shop vacs as one circuit will not be enough for the shop vacs in use.

======================================================================

What is done in the business of large industrial vacuum systems moving materials like grain and fertilizer is that they use "rotary air lock valves" to control and limit the amount of material entering the delivery piping to prevent plugging.


======================================================================

 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Tue. Feb. 16, 2016 12:56 pm

You might want to put a Tee or something near the business end of the hose to act as a vacuum break, in case the hose attaches to something you don't want it to ;)

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