Remodeling and Tapping Into Chimney- Insulation, Barriers ?

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:52 am

Help me lay this out and do it "right". Materials and even layout to some extent.

Those of you following my previous posts know we've been "remodeling" for a few years.

Try to picture this situation. I'll soon be putting together a rough drawing and will post a screenshot shortly.

About to move to the Living Room and have a TLC-2000 (anthracite stove) I purchased a while back for "shoulder months" that only need a little heat (not the main boiler), ambiance, backup for extended power outages, and adds a nice touch to the house.

The chimney is directly outside the location we have planned for the stove.

The chimney is a double, brick faced over chimney block, with clay liners. The first story (where the living room is) is brick faced on outside, but I think the chimney block is right against the outside celotex wallboard. No house wrap or insulation between brick and celotex- one of the reasons for the major remodel.

The walls are 2x4 stud with fiberglass insulation, then walnut paneling on inside. Plywood floor with carpeting over a full basement with block walls.

I can tap into the chimney from about 18" from floor to the ceiling, my choice ;)

The plan is to pull the inside wall covering, strip insulation, do any wiring upgrades, and upgrade insulation.

We can either duplicate what we did upstairs- fiberglass insulation in cavities (repair or replace), 2" foamboard, OSB, then a wall covering, or.... thicken the wall to 2x6, install 1/2" or 1" foam board between the studs, foam it in place (spray foam to seal the edges against the studs and top/bottom), add fiberglass insulation, then cover with...whatever.

We're thinking about cutting the very dark walnut paneling in half for drywall on top half, chair moulding, and paneling below. Lighten up the cave-like appearance.

EXCEPT where the stove will be.

Fireproofing and foam issues I think?

Thinking about Roxul in wall, triple wall through wall pipe into chimney, concrete board on wall behind stove, stone on the cement board, concrete or stone base.

BUT- really want to seal the brick/celotex from the house. I think it actually "produces" cold air ;) The air gap between the brick and wall...old houses, LOL.

So I'd like to find a way to use foam in the cavities to seal air and moisture. I *wish* I had access to outside wall, I'd add foamboard or at least house wrap, but alas...old houses ;)

Questions and concerns

1. I want to avoid adding big sheets of metal to the wall with standoffs because I messed up clearances or materials. It's a living room. It won't be "fancy" but "nice" would be good ;)

2. I don't have a problem adding support to the floor in the basement. It's directly above the spot where we pulled the old hand-fired Bit stove. I only want to leave enough space for a small wood stove in the basement- just for local heat. Even block pillars are okay if needed

3. I don't know how hot the chimney block would get? Although this stove is coal "and wood", mostly would be coal because of the mess. Stove pipe would enter high in the wall, I guess, so not much heat?

4. With triple wall, do I still need the air space around the thimble area in the wall? Do I still need a thimble? Eliminate airspace or fill with Roxul?

5. Is foam in the wall still okay behind the concrete board? I don't want to create a cold wall as this stove may be for occasional use.

6. Stone veneer will most likely be the wall covering up the lower half of the wall and into the corner.

7. There is a window about 8'-12' or so from where the edge of the stove is. The brick was built around it, so a replacement window goes in there.

8. How close to the ceiling/above the stove is ideal for the chimney entry? Cleanout is outside the house at base of chimney. Interior bottom of chimney (without foundation) is about 3' from bottom of floor. Living room is partially below grade.

9. Any special covering material for ceiling above stove? It will "eventually" be replaced, is 12" square white panels stapled to a grid now.

10. Any other considerations???

I've always had to deal with whatever conditions and materials were in place. Never had the chance to lay it all out up front. Want to get it as ideal and trouble free as possible.

I took good note as others have over sized their platforms to allow coal, tools, whatever to be stored on it and keep the house mess-free ;)

Thanks!
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freetown fred
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 1:15 pm

Who the hell wants to try & picture all entailed in that book. I'll be waitin for those pix. Me, I'm just kinda simple minded & a pix tells a thousand words! ;)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 3:19 pm

Yeah? You should try writing it, LOL!

Here is a pic of what we're trying to accomplish. (Updated pic with Red circle behind about where we propose the hole into the chimney). The width of the wall is a few inches over 12' for an idea of scale.
StoveinCorner_Screenshot2.JPG
The door on the right is a small corner bathroom. We are planning to close that wall and move the door to the other edge, just off to camera right, so that would be part of the cement board wall, too.

The flue pipe is about where I've placed the stove model. See updated pic above

Yes, I know it isn't a TLC-2000, but seems close in proportions.

The window on the left is getting replaced by...a window, not an air conditioner. Just to the left of it are the stairs with a low platform that turns left and comes back and up the left side of the house.

Make more sense?
Last edited by CoalisCoolxWarm on Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
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Location: Western PA

Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 3:42 pm

More pics!

Here is a wall with the insulation, 2" foam, then OSB, waiting for the pine TNG. Climbed up the ladder, just for Fred :cheers:
IMAG2561_sm.jpg
And here's an example of an untrimmed window with the TNG installed.
IMAG2562_sm.jpg
No TNG downstairs, but paneling or drywall, or cementboard+stone, depending where it is.

Better? 8-)
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Location: Western PA

Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 3:51 pm

...and a pic of a Harman TLC-2000 I found on the net.
HarmanTLC2000.jpg
Is that good, Fred? LOL. I'm just playin' with ya. I'm a picture kind of guy, too. They really do help understand what's going on.

We had stuff stored in that corner when I first started this thread. Haven't used that room in a while. Now that it is cleared out (mostly!), pics are much easier :up:
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freetown fred
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 4:00 pm

You're doin just fine with the ideas you're stating. What precisely are you being doubtful about? What kind of thimble for going through wall? Round clay? That's what I used in my back room w/ wood stove. That stone will really set things off & look REAL good.
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 4:39 pm

freetown fred wrote:You're doin just fine with the ideas you're stating. What precisely are you being doubtful about? What kind of thimble for going through wall? Round clay? That's what I used in my back room w/ wood stove. That stone will really set things off & look REAL good.
Thanks, Fred. I'm wondering mostly about the wall covering and butting right up against the triple wall as a thimble...or if I go with a clay thimble, how to wrap up close to it?

I read that you should box around the pipe and leave an air gap. Then read that Roxul can be used closer than regular fiberglass.

So I'm thinking I should box the foam away from the thimble by xyz inches (?), and can I fill the remainder with Roxul?

Always been through block walls for me...
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freetown fred
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 4:49 pm

All I can say is I put my clay thimble right through the sheetrock/ studs. Added a couple horizontal 2X's & set the thimble right through. Packed regular insulation around it. That was 20??? yrs ago. I've never felt the thimble hot. This was for my wood beast w/ 8" black pipe into block chimney.
Last edited by freetown fred on Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:09 pm

Clay thimble is supposed to have 12" solid masonry around the 5/8" fire clay thimble.The use of a UL listed prefabricated wall pass through is also acceptable. Ceiling down to the pipe entering the thimble should be a minimum of 18".
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:19 pm

I'm thinkin that's real not right WH.
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:20 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Clay thimble is supposed to have 12" solid masonry around the 5/8" fire clay thimble.The use of a UL listed prefabricated wall pass through is also acceptable. Ceiling down to the pipe entering the thimble should be a minimum of 18".
Okay, I get the 18", but what is the 12" solid masonry? Is that through the whole wall, or 12" clearance to combustibles from the sides of the thimble?
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:29 pm

Where the thimble goes thru the wall.....that hole should be surrounded by 12" of masonry...from the room to the chimney..... this is taken directly from the wood stove installation guide from the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies,this is what I followed when redoing our wood stove install when we bought this place.Yes I am aware that coal exhaust is not as hot,but better safe than sorry.
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Location: Western PA

Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 10:41 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Where the thimble goes thru the wall.....that hole should be surrounded by 12" of masonry...from the room to the chimney..... this is taken directly from the wood stove installation guide from the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies,this is what I followed when redoing our wood stove install when we bought this place.Yes I am aware that coal exhaust is not as hot,but better safe than sorry.
Thanks for that. Got a link to that doc for me?

Here's a snip of the TLC-2000 installation and clearances page, but not the chimney part.
TLC_InstallClearances.PNG
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Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 11:07 pm

I have the booklet but can't find ant internet link for this info.
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Location: Western PA

Post Tue. Nov. 10, 2015 11:43 pm

Think I found an article that references NFPA 211, 2006.

Here is the article: http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/chimney-passin ... ll.147754/

And a few screenshots...

I believe this is the one WH is referencing, with just a clay thimble and 12" masonry
ClayThimble_32inMasonry.png
Here is the double wall I was asking about, think it's better for my installation.
DoubleWall_9inAirspace.png
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