Baro Location
- Wiz
- Member
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:45 pm
- Location: Tannersville Pa
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
- Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Changing stove pipe for better cleaning reasons. In image it shows proper locations of damper, I've added a Black arrow on picture where I want to place damper using a tee pipe. Then I could just remove damper to clean pipe. Wondering why it shows it not being a good spot
- coaledsweat
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 13768
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
You want to put it where it says "not here," correct? Not recommended but lots of people do it and it works fine. I prefer a cap on the TEE for cleaning and the baro in a proper location.
-
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 11417
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
- Location: Kent CT
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
- Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Like coaledsweat says it is not proper but lots use it that way for just the reason you mentioned. With an oil burner a baro in that position will tend to leak some fumes because the burner starts with an explosion all at once and the fumes have to make a right angle turn right there. Yet lots have been installed that way. With coal and a steady fire it should not be such a problem. Coaledsweats advice is best though.
- Doby
- Member
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Tue. Dec. 02, 2014 9:57 pm
- Location: Elysburg PA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Kast console and Alaska Channing III
- Coal Size/Type: Rice
- Other Heating: oil but not much
Ok what am I missing here, just add a tee and cap and leave the baro alone, why do it the other way?
- Wiz
- Member
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:45 pm
- Location: Tannersville Pa
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
- Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Thanks. Another reason I thought of that location was to limit piping to just 2 tee instead of 3....... out of boiler into a tee with cap for clean out. Up to second tee with baro in it. 3 tee out to chimney. Old layout was elbow bottom and top leaving no way to clean during heating season.
- coaledsweat
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 13768
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
The baro functions best in the middle of a straight run. In the "not here" location, the baro is not really sensing the gas stream directly. It just gets a bit of a tickle. Just visualize the gas going through the pipe and the two locations. In the proper location, the baro has the gas passing directly across its diameter. In the TEE at the end, the gas is diverted away from it. Not enough difference to keep it from working, but enough so it doesn't work as it is designed to. The amount of differential in air pressure is very small and if you are anal retentive, you want it all. Some people just don't care about "the details". Your call, but the guys that make the baro say "not here" for a reason.
And for the record, the lower "not here" on your diagram is an absolute NO! The baro must never be a target for the gas stream, it WILL spill exhaust gases into the room.
And for the record, the lower "not here" on your diagram is an absolute NO! The baro must never be a target for the gas stream, it WILL spill exhaust gases into the room.
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14669
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
My thinking is, (yay here he goes again) that during normal operation there is negative pressure in the whole system and it doesn't matter where the baro is at all. It's all about the pressure and during normal operation.
That said, baro location does matter when the capacity of the chimney has been compromised such as when the load door is open for tending. If the baro is located at the base pipe on the other side of the vertical, (in the case of the lower "not here" location) the momentum of the gases would have them go right on past the vertical section of pipe and spill out the baro. Then, if the baro where located at the top of a vertical on the opposite side of the horizontal section, (as in the case of the upper "not here" location) the flue gases would strike the top of the vertical and then be able to flow left or right spilling out the baro that way.
But that's all just a peek inside the mind of lightning. Typical results may vary.
That said, baro location does matter when the capacity of the chimney has been compromised such as when the load door is open for tending. If the baro is located at the base pipe on the other side of the vertical, (in the case of the lower "not here" location) the momentum of the gases would have them go right on past the vertical section of pipe and spill out the baro. Then, if the baro where located at the top of a vertical on the opposite side of the horizontal section, (as in the case of the upper "not here" location) the flue gases would strike the top of the vertical and then be able to flow left or right spilling out the baro that way.
But that's all just a peek inside the mind of lightning. Typical results may vary.
- chevyman1980
- Member
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun. Oct. 23, 2016 1:59 pm
- Location: elkins,wv
- Coal Size/Type: nut
ok fellers,I have read all this stuff but im still gonna ask this..... I got the 50-93 but someone has chopped the the hopper out so i just fill er up to the top of fire brick and works perty good.... I know alot of people say that a baro dont work so well on this ol girl,but i cant help to think is its set up right it would do great... to my understanding u should have about -3 to -6 kpa in the stack between stove and baro,and somewears close to -2 in the fire box above fire. correct me if im wrong. now it says that u should install the baro 18' above stove,but i was also told to put it about 2 foot above. all i got is a 90 out of stove then straight shot up through the roof.... any suggestions here. thanks.
- windyhill4.2
- Member
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Still looking for someone to confirm that your desires are right ? I thought the expert users of the Hitzer 50-93 voiced their experience to you in another thread ?chevyman1980 wrote: ↑Sun. Oct. 08, 2017 10:20 amok fellers,I have read all this stuff but im still gonna ask this..... I got the 50-93 but someone has chopped the the hopper out so i just fill er up to the top of fire brick and works perty good.... I know alot of people say that a baro dont work so well on this ol girl,but i cant help to think is its set up right it would do great... to my understanding u should have about -3 to -6 kpa in the stack between stove and baro,and somewears close to -2 in the fire box above fire. correct me if im wrong. now it says that u should install the baro 18' above stove,but i was also told to put it about 2 foot above. all i got is a 90 out of stove then straight shot up through the roof.... any suggestions here. thanks.
If you think the bi-metallic flap won't do the job that experienced users have assured you it will.... by all means do it greater !! Add many baro's (if 1 is good, 4 would be greater !! That way when a tornado spins into your chimney,it would only suck the warm air out of your house.... your stove wouldn't miss a beat !!(smile)
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30302
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Nice WH!! You've heard that from people that own the same stove C. My personal feelings are--whatever blows smoke up your skirt-- take notes & keep us updated on results. You should put a "T" coming out of the stove for easy clean-out.
chevyman1980 wrote: ↑Sun. Oct. 08, 2017 10:20 amok fellers,I have read all this stuff but im still gonna ask this..... I got the 50-93 but someone has chopped the the hopper out so i just fill er up to the top of fire brick and works perty good.... I know alot of people say that a baro dont work so well on this ol girl,but i cant help to think is its set up right it would do great... to my understanding u should have about -3 to -6 kpa in the stack between stove and baro,and somewears close to -2 in the fire box above fire. correct me if im wrong. now it says that u should install the baro 18' above stove,but i was also told to put it about 2 foot above. all i got is a 90 out of stove then straight shot up through the roof.... any suggestions here. thanks.
Last edited by freetown fred on Sun. Oct. 08, 2017 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
- warminmn
- Member
- Posts: 8208
- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
If your draft is as high as about 5% of us seem to have, "maybe" it would help save a little fuel. The one stove I had with the rear air intake somewhat similar to the Hitzer I tried it both ways and ended out tin foiling over it until I removed it. It "might" have saved a pound a day but the stove was just so much more responsive without it. My draft often runs at .1 and Ive seen it hit 1 on a mano (yes my numbers are correct I am not missing a zero) which is likely higher than you have.
But go ahead and put one on. Try it with it, then tin foil over and try without. Let us know what you think. I do use one on my Chubby as it would overheat because of my draft if I didnt, as it is not an airtight stove. The Hitzer is.
But go ahead and put one on. Try it with it, then tin foil over and try without. Let us know what you think. I do use one on my Chubby as it would overheat because of my draft if I didnt, as it is not an airtight stove. The Hitzer is.
- chevyman1980
- Member
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun. Oct. 23, 2016 1:59 pm
- Location: elkins,wv
- Coal Size/Type: nut
Well I'm perty Shure I'm gonna end up taken it out then,but with a mpd should I just regulate that to keep about 3 kpa between stove and mpd.
- warminmn
- Member
- Posts: 8208
- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
thats a million dollar question Chevy! Some people here leave it straight up, some close it all the way. (as long as its a MPD with holes in the middle) Its whatever works for you. Try different things until you find what works for you. You can add a baro if you want too and cover it with tin foil if it doesnt do what you want also. Its your stove.
The part thats hard to explain and probably more opinions than mine, is its an airtight stove, with the air intake opening when you need heat, closing when you dont. That is kind of what Hitzer or other air-tight stoves with similar air intakes have in mind to regulate the heat. Its kind of a simple, mostly safe system that even with some operator error will still heat a house safely, whether the owner adds any type of damper or not.
I am not sure what members here do, if anything, to the air intake to keep it just a tiny bit open at all times. I added a paper clip to my Dad's Hitzer cuz it was easy to do and Im sure I read about it here.. Opinions on that will vary too.
The part thats hard to explain and probably more opinions than mine, is its an airtight stove, with the air intake opening when you need heat, closing when you dont. That is kind of what Hitzer or other air-tight stoves with similar air intakes have in mind to regulate the heat. Its kind of a simple, mostly safe system that even with some operator error will still heat a house safely, whether the owner adds any type of damper or not.
I am not sure what members here do, if anything, to the air intake to keep it just a tiny bit open at all times. I added a paper clip to my Dad's Hitzer cuz it was easy to do and Im sure I read about it here.. Opinions on that will vary too.
- Hambden Bob
- Member
- Posts: 8551
- Joined: Mon. Jan. 04, 2010 10:54 am
- Location: Hambden Twp. Geauga County,Ohio
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Blower Model Coal Chubby 1982-Serial#0097
- Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni ! / Nut
- Other Heating: Pro-Pain Forced Air
Just my crummy opinion,but before You do any more modifications,changes,etc,.I'd ask You to check and or replace Your Gaskets on Your stove to ensure Your control is able to do it's job as best as possible. Alot of Fine Folks here swear by their Hitzers,but since someone prior to You thought it was a great idea to hack the hopper out of Your unit,I'd check those gaskets,then work my way out from there.... These Guys have once again come to Your Aid....
Bye the way,this 6 pager of Yours covered alot of good ground,harvest from it,track Your results,and most of all,go slow and be patient. I realize most days money sure as Hell doesn't grow on trees. You may want to add onto and refire Your original thread to show how You've tried things. It will also help to let the Guys know how things turned out. We love feedback ! For Your convenience,I dragged it up and posted the link to it below. Good Luck,and Better Heating !
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=42445
Bye the way,this 6 pager of Yours covered alot of good ground,harvest from it,track Your results,and most of all,go slow and be patient. I realize most days money sure as Hell doesn't grow on trees. You may want to add onto and refire Your original thread to show how You've tried things. It will also help to let the Guys know how things turned out. We love feedback ! For Your convenience,I dragged it up and posted the link to it below. Good Luck,and Better Heating !
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=42445