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Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 16, 2015 9:30 pm
by hotblast1357
That's another thought I had, was I don't want cool air blowing while I wait for the exchanger too heat up, but I guess if I put a aquastat on it it will work correctly, what I need to figure out is how much extra coal would I burn keeping the one circulator running 24/7, I would think for one that it would decrease the chances of a over shoot after satisfication because the water will keep circulating through, not sit idle while my fire simmers down, and second, what's it cost.. Around 8 dollars a moth to run the pump 24/7? Idk I am no expert and that's why I'm coming to everyone for there opinion, isn't it also better for a motor to run constant than too cycle? I guess that would also depend how much it's going to cycle throughout the day feeding the house exchanger and garage, I could just purchase another pump for about 100 dollars and have it all set, but I believe I just don't need that much pumping power, in my head why have two pumps running on low when I could run one pump on high?

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 16, 2015 9:33 pm
by hotblast1357
Sorry I don't mean 24/7, only when one of the two or both call for heat. So if it's a nice sunny day the house and garage probably won't call for heat and everything will sit idle.

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 16, 2015 9:46 pm
by Sting
as Windy posts = [it depend] on the seasonal temps and the system design

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 16, 2015 10:24 pm
by McGiever
As for constant pump circulation...windy has many feet of buried underground pipe...not the best system for comparing apples to apples. :roll:

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 16, 2015 10:32 pm
by hotblast1357
I understand that is also a huge difference, I won't have but maybe 200 feet of piping in my whole system.

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sun. May. 17, 2015 12:38 pm
by windyhill4.2
McGiever wrote:As for constant pump circulation...windy has many feet of buried underground pipe...not the best system for comparing apples to apples. :roll:
If I had the boiler in an addition on the shop & only had it 10' from the water to air heat exchanger,i would still run the pump 24/7 when heat is needed. Pumping hot water thru the exchanger (radiator) allows a constant radiant heat that helps to keep the fans from running as much,less fan run time,less fan noise,shop warm,me happy :D :roll:

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sun. May. 17, 2015 6:22 pm
by McGiever
My point is that what HB wants is not what WH has...not that WH set up isn't just perfect for his unique situation.
HB has a house and a garage to park a car or two in which has insulation and far less cubic feet of heated space doubt his garage door gets raised more than 4 times a day.

I'll say it again"It's not complaring apples to apples"

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sun. May. 17, 2015 6:33 pm
by windyhill4.2
Comparing ..... A garage like hb has I would likely eliminate my 20" x 20" exchanger & just use my 10" x 12" exchanger & run hot water thru it on a constant basis when heat is needed. If it would get too warm I would put the pump on a t-stat & the fan on another t-stat,any radiation = less fan run time. He is running a hand fed boiler ? yes, what better way to keep the boiler temp more even than a constant running zone ? :) apples & apples. :) Doesn't mean that my setup or ideas are THE way to go ,but they are A way to go.hb can do in his house as he pleases,it won't upset me in the least. :) :)

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sun. May. 17, 2015 6:47 pm
by hotblast1357
I have two over head doors, they get opened at least twice a day, if I snow blow it's more, the garage is insulated better than the house though.. My thought to running the pump 24/7 when it gets cold is this, I have my grundfos pump, then a T, and one line goes to the house exchanger 15 feet away, and the other line goes to the garage exchanger, 40 feet away, it pumps all the time and I control the fans with thermostats.

Another option is after the pump and T, I put a zone valve on each side, because sometimes the house will call for heat and the garage isn't, so I'd be pumping to both unless I have a zone valve to stop it.

Another option is a manifold, and then install a grundfos pump on each line.

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Fri. May. 22, 2015 9:35 pm
by dave brode
2 cents worth;

My house has a hot water coil in the living space heat pump duct and another fan/coil unit in basement. I ran the boiler's single pump 24/7 for some time. Fans ran as needed. It worked ok, but spring/fall, heat from boiler plumbing ion the basement would rise to the ceiling/floor, and the house living space got too hot.

I Changed to 24v zone valves with end switches wired back to the "TT" terminal in 8124 triple stat. It was a HUGE improvement. When idling, the boiler held heat, as the single keystoker supplied pump comes on only with a call from either "zone". The biggest improvement was due to the stoker running any time there was a call, which really helped my slightly undersized KAA2. It would often be caught off guard and lag way behind prior to the change.

The only down side is the minute of cold air I get until the coil gets hot. I'm sure that there is a way to get around that, but it's not a big deal to me.

You can buy 120v - 24v transformers cheap that could be used to run the zone valves. My heat pump had a 24v circuit for that zone valve, but I used one of the plug in transformers on the basement fan/coil. I parallel wired it to the fan motor.

Dave

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 23, 2015 5:26 am
by hotblast1357
Thanks Dave for that info, I'm gonna run it wide open and see how it goes.

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 23, 2015 10:34 pm
by Lightning
Around 8 dollars a moth to run the pump 24/7?
How many amps/watts does the pump draw?
It could be quite a bit more than $8 a month.

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sat. May. 23, 2015 11:28 pm
by coldinmaine
In addition to what dave said, you could eliminate the minute of cold air by hooking your fan to a delay relay.

http://www.amazon.com/ICM254-Blower-Control-Delay ... KTCNCGV6MP

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sun. May. 24, 2015 12:06 am
by Lightning
StokerDon wrote: If the blower comes on with the thermostat, you could be blowing cold air around. The furnace blower should only turn ON when there is heat in the coil. So, some sort of aquastat should be on or near the coil to sense the heated water flowing through it. Thats all you need to control the blower. The blower doesn't need to know what the boiler is doing, only that there is heated water in it.

As McGiever said, you have some time so, find this stuff at a disscount. No need to pay full price.

-Don
Yep Yep, I would just mount a thermal snap switch (close on rise 100 degrees) on the return from the coil right where it exits the air handler.

Re: Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

Posted: Sun. May. 24, 2015 7:35 am
by hotblast1357
Here are the specs.