Run the Circulator 24/7 or on Demand?

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
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hotblast1357
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Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville, NY

Post Sat. May. 16, 2015 9:30 pm

That's another thought I had, was I don't want cool air blowing while I wait for the exchanger too heat up, but I guess if I put a aquastat on it it will work correctly, what I need to figure out is how much extra coal would I burn keeping the one circulator running 24/7, I would think for one that it would decrease the chances of a over shoot after satisfication because the water will keep circulating through, not sit idle while my fire simmers down, and second, what's it cost.. Around 8 dollars a moth to run the pump 24/7? Idk I am no expert and that's why I'm coming to everyone for there opinion, isn't it also better for a motor to run constant than too cycle? I guess that would also depend how much it's going to cycle throughout the day feeding the house exchanger and garage, I could just purchase another pump for about 100 dollars and have it all set, but I believe I just don't need that much pumping power, in my head why have two pumps running on low when I could run one pump on high?


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hotblast1357
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Posts: 2653
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville, NY

Post Sat. May. 16, 2015 9:33 pm

Sorry I don't mean 24/7, only when one of the two or both call for heat. So if it's a nice sunny day the house and garage probably won't call for heat and everything will sit idle.

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Sting
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Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG
Location: Lower Fox Valley = Wisconsin

Post Sat. May. 16, 2015 9:46 pm

as Windy posts = [it depend] on the seasonal temps and the system design
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Sat. May. 16, 2015 10:24 pm

As for constant pump circulation...windy has many feet of buried underground pipe...not the best system for comparing apples to apples. :roll:
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

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hotblast1357
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Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville, NY

Post Sat. May. 16, 2015 10:32 pm

I understand that is also a huge difference, I won't have but maybe 200 feet of piping in my whole system.

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windyhill4.2
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038

Post Sun. May. 17, 2015 12:38 pm

McGiever wrote:As for constant pump circulation...windy has many feet of buried underground pipe...not the best system for comparing apples to apples. :roll:
If I had the boiler in an addition on the shop & only had it 10' from the water to air heat exchanger,i would still run the pump 24/7 when heat is needed. Pumping hot water thru the exchanger (radiator) allows a constant radiant heat that helps to keep the fans from running as much,less fan run time,less fan noise,shop warm,me happy :D :roll:
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

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McGiever
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Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Sun. May. 17, 2015 6:22 pm

My point is that what HB wants is not what WH has...not that WH set up isn't just perfect for his unique situation.
HB has a house and a garage to park a car or two in which has insulation and far less cubic feet of heated space doubt his garage door gets raised more than 4 times a day.

I'll say it again"It's not complaring apples to apples"
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

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windyhill4.2
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038

Post Sun. May. 17, 2015 6:33 pm

Comparing ..... A garage like hb has I would likely eliminate my 20" x 20" exchanger & just use my 10" x 12" exchanger & run hot water thru it on a constant basis when heat is needed. If it would get too warm I would put the pump on a t-stat & the fan on another t-stat,any radiation = less fan run time. He is running a hand fed boiler ? yes, what better way to keep the boiler temp more even than a constant running zone ? :) apples & apples. :) Doesn't mean that my setup or ideas are THE way to go ,but they are A way to go.hb can do in his house as he pleases,it won't upset me in the least. :) :)
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.


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hotblast1357
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Posts: 2653
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville, NY

Post Sun. May. 17, 2015 6:47 pm

I have two over head doors, they get opened at least twice a day, if I snow blow it's more, the garage is insulated better than the house though.. My thought to running the pump 24/7 when it gets cold is this, I have my grundfos pump, then a T, and one line goes to the house exchanger 15 feet away, and the other line goes to the garage exchanger, 40 feet away, it pumps all the time and I control the fans with thermostats.

Another option is after the pump and T, I put a zone valve on each side, because sometimes the house will call for heat and the garage isn't, so I'd be pumping to both unless I have a zone valve to stop it.

Another option is a manifold, and then install a grundfos pump on each line.

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dave brode
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Fri. May. 22, 2015 9:35 pm

2 cents worth;

My house has a hot water coil in the living space heat pump duct and another fan/coil unit in basement. I ran the boiler's single pump 24/7 for some time. Fans ran as needed. It worked ok, but spring/fall, heat from boiler plumbing ion the basement would rise to the ceiling/floor, and the house living space got too hot.

I Changed to 24v zone valves with end switches wired back to the "TT" terminal in 8124 triple stat. It was a HUGE improvement. When idling, the boiler held heat, as the single keystoker supplied pump comes on only with a call from either "zone". The biggest improvement was due to the stoker running any time there was a call, which really helped my slightly undersized KAA2. It would often be caught off guard and lag way behind prior to the change.

The only down side is the minute of cold air I get until the coil gets hot. I'm sure that there is a way to get around that, but it's not a big deal to me.

You can buy 120v - 24v transformers cheap that could be used to run the zone valves. My heat pump had a 24v circuit for that zone valve, but I used one of the plug in transformers on the basement fan/coil. I parallel wired it to the fan motor.

Dave
I love my Kaa-2. It replaced a small 5 section Red Square, and Iron Fireman, burned bituminous for 20 yr.

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hotblast1357
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Posts: 2653
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville, NY

Post Sat. May. 23, 2015 5:26 am

Thanks Dave for that info, I'm gonna run it wide open and see how it goes.

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Sat. May. 23, 2015 10:34 pm

Around 8 dollars a moth to run the pump 24/7?
How many amps/watts does the pump draw?
It could be quite a bit more than $8 a month.

coldinmaine
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old- green furnace
Coal Size/Type: nut mostly
Other Heating: pellet, wood

Post Sat. May. 23, 2015 11:28 pm

In addition to what dave said, you could eliminate the minute of cold air by hooking your fan to a delay relay.

http://www.amazon.com/ICM254-Blower-Control-Delay ... KTCNCGV6MP

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Lightning
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Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Sun. May. 24, 2015 12:06 am

StokerDon wrote: If the blower comes on with the thermostat, you could be blowing cold air around. The furnace blower should only turn ON when there is heat in the coil. So, some sort of aquastat should be on or near the coil to sense the heated water flowing through it. Thats all you need to control the blower. The blower doesn't need to know what the boiler is doing, only that there is heated water in it.

As McGiever said, you have some time so, find this stuff at a disscount. No need to pay full price.

-Don
Yep Yep, I would just mount a thermal snap switch (close on rise 100 degrees) on the return from the coil right where it exits the air handler.

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hotblast1357
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Posts: 2653
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville, NY

Post Sun. May. 24, 2015 7:35 am

Here are the specs.
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