Best Chimney Construction

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
pyro29
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Posts: 84
Joined: Tue. Nov. 25, 2014 7:42 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Coal Chubby w/Blower
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Nut
Location: CT

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 7:32 am

So we're having our chimney redone, due to damage from a chimney fire (from the wife's wood stove).

Waiting for the insurance company's "contractor" to come out this week to try to pick apart the estimate I got from a contractor I trust. I'm assuming that they [Insurance Co.] are going to tell me that they will only re-line the chimney, not repair it.

Is there any legitimate reasons that a masonry flue is better than a relined [pipe] flue? Does one draft better than another? Is one more susceptible to corrosion / erosion than another? Any other information that I should have?

I would rather have a masonry flue, and have the chimney repaired to the condition it was before hand. The damage is extensive: flue tiles cracked and or missing, penetration of one flue into the other, missing mortar between bricks, can see daylight through tile cracks, etc.

Thanks for the info guys


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freetown fred
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Posts: 21408
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 7:40 am

My understanding is your ins. should repair/replace back to original, not put a Band-Aid on a huge gash:(
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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SWPaDon
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Posts: 9967
Joined: Sun. Nov. 24, 2013 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace
Location: Southwest Pa.

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 7:46 am

Some on here have reported liners burning thru in as little as 2 years, others have lasted 10 or more. Depends on a lot of factors, moisture being the most prominent as it turns the flyash into an acid, that eats the liner away.

And I see FF posted, I agree with him.

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coalkirk
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Posts: 4678
Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 7:49 am

Short of tearing it down and rebuilding, this would be my first choice.
http://www.thermocretechimneysystems.com/
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

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coaledsweat
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Posts: 9822
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 8:52 am

If most of the tiles are gone go with the cast in place liner. It will be insulated and add strength to the chimney. A metal liner is just looking for more trouble.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

waldo lemieux
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Posts: 2261
Joined: Sun. Sep. 30, 2012 8:20 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20
Location: Ithaca,NY

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 9:11 am

Do not under any circumstances let them think for one second that your willing to accept a metal liner.

Too, I would point out that if they do not allow you to do a proper job and something happens down the road because of a shortcut they insist on, that youll proceed to the offices of Willwe, Cheatum, and Howe and then they will all be working for you .

Tell them you intend to burn coal and will not accept a SS liner. If they then say oh well we wont cover any loss from coal burning, point out that burning wood is what got you where you are now.

Bottom line: don't let some "suit" tell you and your contractor what is gonna happen. And please post a follow up!
When faced with a seemingly impossible task, my grandfather always said "can't never can, untill try comes along"

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McGiever
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Posts: 5997
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 10:01 am

Simply stated, Any sheet metal or corrugated flexible metal liner provides no structural integrity to a already weaken structure.
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

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coaledsweat
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Posts: 9822
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 10:48 am

Since your loss is in fact a tile lined chimney, a metal liner does nothing to replace your loss. Nor is it a permanent fix.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.


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windyhill4.2
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Posts: 5015
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 10:58 am

coalkirk wrote:Short of tearing it down and rebuilding, this would be my first choice.
http://www.thermocretechimneysystems.com/
NICE solution, Thanks to coalkirk for that info.What is not to like about this ???
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

Den034071
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Joined: Sat. Jun. 25, 2011 4:30 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer, 3095

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 11:48 am

Pyro im a bricklayer 40 plus years .This is a serious problem .Many comments on here about ss liners .Go masonry chim. with a round liner .Note ever seen a barn or old house falling down .What still standing .The masonry chimney .Going further talk to your fire marshall too .Insist on 3 masons looking at situation .jack
Jack from Lehigh Valley

NJJoe
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Posts: 259
Joined: Wed. Jun. 08, 2011 1:28 pm
Location: Southern NH

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 12:29 pm

This seems like a good thread for you to read:

Suggestions for a Chimney Fire Proof Chimney

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lsayre
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Posts: 12191
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Mon. Apr. 06, 2015 5:29 pm

Be sure to let your insurance company know that coal does not have creosote.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

pyro29
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue. Nov. 25, 2014 7:42 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Coal Chubby w/Blower
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Nut
Location: CT

Post Tue. Apr. 21, 2015 7:35 am

A quick update:

The insurance company, after being "absent" for several weeks sent a P.E. and a chimney "expert" out to look at the chimney the other day.

I had emailed the engineer pictures from the video of the inside of my flue ahead of time. When they arrived and saw my 12 pitch roof, 3.5 stories up, the engineer was up in the air about going up to the top of the chimney, more so when I told him they may NOT use a roof ladder on my roof.

The "expert" was unfazed by the roof pitch or height and said that he was convinced that the pics were accurate and genuine just by looking around.

Both the engineer and expert had some concerns with the condition of my chimney's base which is starting to erode and crack. As of now, it is still structurally stable but, as I knew, they commented that it would only be a couple years before the chimney may pull away from the house. They also questioned the material the base was made from as it has allot of field stones in it. The house was built in 1988 and the base should have been cast as part of the foundation.

Anyways, the engineer and "expert" both told me that their first recommendation to the insurance company would be complete replacement. The engineer acknowledged my intention to burn coal and was informed by the "expert" that a typical stainless liner was unsuitable for coal use due to longevity concerns.

While I wait to hear back from the insurance company, I have contacted a "Personal Adjuster", a business who acts as an adjuster but works on your behalf. If the insurance company doesn't agree to complete replacement, I will hire this PA firm and go from there.

I'll post what happens next.

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SWPaDon
Member
Posts: 9967
Joined: Sun. Nov. 24, 2013 12:05 pm
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace
Location: Southwest Pa.

Post Tue. Apr. 21, 2015 7:52 am

Thanks for the update. Be sure to keep us informed.

pyro29
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue. Nov. 25, 2014 7:42 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Coal Chubby w/Blower
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Nut
Location: CT

Post Wed. Sep. 09, 2015 2:51 pm

So it's September, and still no definite solution in sight.

After the Engineer and the insurance company's mason looked at it, both sides agreed on a third party mason, that was mutually agreed upon, to come out and write another estimate.

The insurance company's first preferred mason's estimate was for $10,050.

The first estimate, from my preferred mason, was for $23,000.

The third party mason's estimate was for $18,970.

The insurance company's second choice preferred mason was for $9,987.

There's obviously a pattern here. As of today, we are still in disagreement and, honestly, I think the underwriter's plan is to keep pushing us back until it gets cold, in hopes of forcing us to settle with their current offer, a whopping $5,490. Ultimately, we will most likely take out a Home Equity line and fix it ourselves, then sue the insurance company for the damage.

This is a complete nightmare, especially dealing with my wife's stress about the whole thing. It has also forced me to buy a new boiler so I can ensure that I have an adequate source of heat this winter. The underwriter is Holyoke Mutual Assurance, and I'm less than satisfied. We have filed complaints with the BBB, CT State Insurance Dept, and even spoke with Consumer Reports and an article about this drama is being written by an Op-Ed reporter for the Hartford Courant. For the life of me, after 27 years with the same underwriter, and no claims, it just doesn't seem to me that this claim is all that special or extravagant that it would necessitate all their delay tactics.

More to come...at some point.


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