Researching Is a Pain in the Butt

coalstoves wrote:[

As far as speaking to the factory I would have to agree with Richard on that one, I would no more expect a factory rep of a stove plant to speak with me about Baro settings as I would GM HQ in Detroit to talk with me about Tire inflation.

Why?

If not the factory, who exactly trains the stove dealers? Why is there no person with experience for this purpose?

In my case, I'm not relaying an experience with a manual fed coal stove. Yes, those are very basic. My bad experience with Harman is directly pointed to poor service from a dealer. Where do you turn when you have poor service from a dealer? I have a Harman pellet fireplace insert. It's all electronic. When the dealer is out 6 times and still can't fix it, where else am I to turn to?
Had someone at the factory taken 10 minutes to talk to me, it could have answered many questions and saved a lot of ill will. Everything is electronic in this stove. What exactly am I supposed to "know" when the dealer himself doesn't? Why am I to be a guinea pig in his learning curve?
Tech support is a part of doing business. If a company refuses to talk to its customers when they ask for help, then they sure as heck don't need their business either. I wasn't calling for touch up paint or asking how to clean the glass. I want to know why I can't get heat out of the all electronic stove, and why the As#%#@#@ dealer is giving me the runaround.

I''ll go out of my way to NOT buy their product again. All because of lack of tech support and piss-poor attitude on the dealer's end, and that of the factory. They don't care about me. Why should I care about them?

I should have bought a stove at Home Depot. The lack of support would have been the same.

The auto Dealership scenario applies again across the board, when I bought my Impala it was from a Dealer farther away than the local Dealer because I liked that store and its people, last year the dealership changed hands and so did the management of the service department so I shopped around and now take the car to a different Dealer I feel better about.

It really sucks not all dealers are equal and great but what can ya do certainly not blame Chevrolet,,,, well I guess ya could but that isn't realistic an doesn't really solve the problem or fix the car .

daveuz wrote:Check out U Haul rates. I believe that for 1 day it will be pretty affordable. I know that the enclosed trailer you can rent from them is only like $18.00- $23.00 for a 24 hour period and the trucks might be something like $30-40 plus fuel.

Yeah I looked up U-Haul and for a 4 room truck it could carry four tons and it would cost $39.99 a day and .079 cents a mile so it would cost us with fuel a little less then $200 to rent that's with us unloading 200 40lb bags of coal The wife says that's if we can get it done with-in a 24 hour period without killing our self's. Just weighting in all our options and seeing what we have to pick and choose from.

Adamiscold wrote:Yeah I looked up U-Haul and for a 4 room truck it could carry four tons and it would cost $39.99 a day and .079 cents a mile so it would cost us with fuel a little less then $200 to rent that's with us unloading 200 40lb bags of coal

Hey Adam,

I'm in Southern NH & been looking into ways to get cheaper coal too. My local Agway has 50lb bags for $7.99 each or $282 per ton ($7.05 per bag). A pallet comes with 50 bags.
I did a simple mileage calculator to help me figure out what would be economical as I looked at this too a while ago.

I'm still trying to read through the many posts on here but I'm guessing where you & I are coming from we'd need to get to at least Scranton PA to buy bulk coal where its cheap. A round trip for you would be about 600miles +/-. Uhaul wants $0.79 per miles so that'll be $474 right there. Plus $39.99. That's $514.
Their website says the trucks get 6-8mpg of gasoline. At 6mpg that's 100 gallons. At $3.00 per gallon that's $300 in fuel. Now you're up to $814 before you've put any coal in her. The website also says the 26' trucks will carry 7,395lbs. Take off 500 of that for you, the wife, fuel, baggage & you're left with about 6,900lbs before you'll run afoul of the law. That's about 3.5 ton.

To do better than $987 locally you need to get the 3.5 ton for $173 ... or about $50 per ton.

I also looked at Ryder. I can get a flatbed that won't require a CDL. It'll be diesel & capable of taking about 14,500 Lbs, or 7.25 ton. Rates are $120 per day. $35 for insurance. The published rate is $0.34 per mile but the guy on the phone said he'd give me $0.10 given the estimated 700 miles I'd be putting on it.
For 6mpg at $4 per gallon diesel it would be $467 in fuel. 700 miles x $0.10 = $70. Plus $120 & $35 I'd be up to about $700.
If I bought 5 ton locally it would be 5 x $282 = $1,410. With this truck I'd have $1,140 minus $700 to spend to break even .. that's $710 for 5 ton or $142 per ton. I might be able to get that but it's not much of a savings.

What I think I will end up doing is plan C ..

Myself & the girlfriend both have diesel trucks. We're looking into buying a solid trailer (maybe 10,000 lb) to make the run ourselves. We'd have about 700 miles round trip. Figuring out my mpg (which I know exactly as I track it for my taxes) & allowing for empty on the way down & heavy on the return & quessing $4 per gallon on diesel (which will likely be more when I get to going). Then I'd be at about $240 for fuel. I'd need to get 3.75 ton of coal for $222 to break even. Anything cheaper would be savings, & everything over 3.75 ton would be great too. This seems more feasible. Plus we'd own the trailer & could use it for other stuff, like a possible tractor purchase, as well as more years of coal runs to PA !!

Colm

livefreeordie wrote: I also looked at Ryder. I can get a flatbed that won't require a CDL. It'll be diesel & capable of taking about 14,500 Lbs, or 7.25 ton. Rates are $120 per day. $35 for insurance. The published rate is $0.34 per mile but the guy on the phone said he'd give me $0.10 given the estimated 700 miles I'd be putting on it.
For 6mpg at $4 per gallon diesel it would be $467 in fuel. 700 miles x $0.10 = $70. Plus $120 & $35 I'd be up to about $700.
If I bought 5 ton locally it would be 5 x $282 = $1,410. With this truck I'd have $1,140 minus $700 to spend to break even .. that's $710 for 5 ton or $142 per ton. I might be able to get that but it's not much of a savings.

I was looking through this again & I see that I made a mistake in my math. $1,140 minus $700 would be $440. My fat fingers must'a moved the 4 infront of the 1.

So that makes it a little worse. I'd have to get 5 ton for $88 a ton to break even.

Colm

Colm if I was going to rent a u-haul it would be just for me to use here locally to Worcester and back with coal going to $300 a ton(National Coal Co) and it would cost me just under $200 for rental 39.99, mileage 110 x .079= 86.90 plus fuel. Only being able to get 4 ton plus unloading it. I think I would be better off going with Chabott coal in Keene for $310 a ton and have them deliver it for about $120. If the have a forklift? Get 4 ton and save my back by having them do the unloading for me. I'm not sure if the have a forklift but I would assume that they would or their guy would be at their stops for an awful long time. I think if I was going to go all the way to PA for coal then I would just hire someone and pick up a whole truck load that would last for 5 years or so. Of course it wont be this year, do to setup cost's and everything but I will just go locally for now.

Have you guys looked around for an excavator? Right now they are somewhat slow due to the season and soggy ground. Lots of tri-axles sitting idle looking for work. $75/hr man and machine, no mileage charges. Fill it and sell off the excess. You'll probably make enough to cover your own hauling fees.

coalstoves wrote:The auto Dealership scenario applies again across the board, when I bought my Impala it was from a Dealer farther away than the local Dealer because I liked that store and its people, last year the dealership changed hands and so did the management of the service department so I shopped around and now take the car to a different Dealer I feel better about.

It really sucks not all dealers are equal and great but what can ya do certainly not blame Chevrolet,,,, well I guess ya could but that isn't realistic an doesn't really solve the problem or fix the car .

Auto manufacturers have a service center you can talk to. I have spoken to Chrysler many times as well as had a three way conference call with the dealership. The car was then repaired correctly, as it could have been the first few times. The dealer just needed a little "persuasion" by the manufacturer. That's what the factory SHOULD be doing. It's THEIR name.

Throwing your hands up and saying "Oh well, I'll just move on" is precisely why some comapnies treat their customers the way they do. They know they can get away with it. If YOU don't care how you're treated, then why should they? You went away. The problem was solved. Complacency is why things don't improve.

Between stove, installation and pellets, I spent over $3000. I think that entitles me to knowledgeable service techs. Would you, as another dealer, want to come in and clean up that selling dealer's mess? Dealers get ticked for that. In any trade or industry. They didn't make a nickel on the sale or install, but they have to do the warranty work. Think that new dealer is inspired to give 100% effort?

Customer's accessibility to the manufacturer for support is essential. Some people need it, other's don't. But it should be there. Yes, they get lots of spam. So what. I get spam and lots of junk mail too. It's a cost of doing business. Frustrated or PO'd customers will not purchase your product or service. How much does the company save there?

You can try Uship.com. Uship is a site where you list what you want shipped and people can give you a price or you can list what you will pay and people bid on it. . Many people looking to fill up on loads check it often. I have a friend who used it once to have a car shipped. I saved him a bit of cash. http://www.uship.com/ship/general/?&gclid=CJ2bgpO ... GgodUHu_9w

Thanks Daveuz & Bonehead for the ideas.
I will look deeper into them.

Thanks guys good ideas.

I found a company called C&T Coal Co. right out of Baldwinville,Ma three minutes right up the street not in the phone book or online. They sell the cheapest price coal I've found yet for free local delivery 235 a ton bulk and 260 a ton bagged. They get their coal from a placed called Higgins mining? Again don't find anything on them on Google. It seems to be an older couple who do it part time, she says the kids are grown up and moved on and her husband works a full time job and does the coal part time. He used to go and pick the coal up himself but that got to expensive so now he has it delivered.

As you can tell she is a very friendly lady, I don't know if the coal is any good or not but at that price he must be getting one hell of a deal on having it delivered. Seems as though it might be worth talking to him to find out who he is using and see if you can work something out with them to bring you the coal you want from PA.

coal berner can give you the low down. but in a recent post he advised against them.

No Hegins There are selling the breaker and the Quality is not good using up what is laying around Go to either of the other two Much Better Quality Superior coal is Pulling out of the Primrose Vein & the Buck mountain vein Summit is Pulling out of The Primrose vein The Holems vein The Mammoth top split the Mammoth Middel split the Middel Mammoth Bottom split veins The Skidmore vein also The Seven Foot vein The lower Four Foot vein & Buck Mountain vein

Maybe you can convince C&T Coal Co. to pick up from a different breaker and help everybody out? Again ask coal berner for some help.

livefreeordie wrote:Thanks Daveuz & Bonehead for the ideas.
I will look deeper into them.

I posted a request on uship yesterday, asking for a quote on 17+ ton hauled to my town in NH from the Superior breaker in Valley View PA. I got a good number of responses with guys asking me for more info & telling me they'd get back to me.
Pretty cool site. You can include pictures & descriptions. The guys who provide the quotes are all members & the site tracks the satisfaction other shippers have had with each hauler & gives them a rating.
One guy asked if he could get a 38' dump trailer on to my property & would I take a delivery of 20 ton. I have the room & I replied "show me what you got!"

If I don't have the cash to afford all 20ton, once I get more info I'll ask if any other New Englanders would like to split this up with me.

If I can pay for all 20ton, then I could have all my heat & hot water taken care of for the next 5+ years for about the same as about 4+ months of oil at todays prices!!!!!!!!

CapeCoaler wrote:coal berner can give you the low down. but in a recent post he advised against them.

No Hegins There are selling the breaker and the Quality is not good using up what is laying around Go to either of the other two Much Better Quality Superior coal is Pulling out of the Primrose Vein & the Buck mountain vein Summit is Pulling out of The Primrose vein The Holems vein The Mammoth top split the Mammoth Middel split the Middel Mammoth Bottom split veins The Skidmore vein also The Seven Foot vein The lower Four Foot vein & Buck Mountain vein

Maybe you can convince C&T Coal Co. to pick up from a different breaker and help everybody out? Again ask coal berner for some help.

Agreed. Be careful and do the research first before you spend your hard earned money. Nothing worse then getting stuck with a ton or more of crummy strip-mined or refuse coal.