Preventing Pinhole Leaks in Copper?

 
NJJoe
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Post by NJJoe » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 1:14 pm

Question for you plumbers here. I had a campfire in my backyard and the neighbor came over with her friend to hang out. Friend happened to be a plumber and we eventually got into some discussion about PEX vs copper etc... I mention that one disadvantage I hear about using copper is the potential for pinhole leaks. He replies that there is a grade of copper piping that is more expensive but either more resistant or proof against pinhole leaking and for the life of me I cant remember what he recommended.

Is there any truth to what I heard? Now it is possible that I may have misheard him; it was late, I had been up for almost 24 hours and beer made an appearance around the fire. Appreciate anyone that can comment on this. Thanks


 
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 1:17 pm

Not a plumber. ;)

Thicker grades are available...K,L,M.
Thicker = $$$$$
Pex is good. :)

Google them. :idea:

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 1:33 pm

Copper is prone to pinhole leaks in acidic environments. As the previous poster noted, different thicknesses are available but if your system has acidic fluid running through it, it would only be a matter of time.

Eliminate the acidity and you eliminate the issue. Copper pipes can last a lifetime.

 
NJJoe
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Post by NJJoe » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 1:53 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:Copper is prone to pinhole leaks in acidic environments. As the previous poster noted, different thicknesses are available but if your system has acidic fluid running through it, it would only be a matter of time.

Eliminate the acidity and you eliminate the issue. Copper pipes can last a lifetime.
Would water softening alleviate a acidic situation? Or is this resolved by another method?

 
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Post by waldo lemieux » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 5:41 pm

joe

soft copper will readily develop pinholes in some well water. use L or k for domestic water or M for heating.
waldo

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 6:49 pm

NJJoe wrote:
davidmcbeth3 wrote:Copper is prone to pinhole leaks in acidic environments. As the previous poster noted, different thicknesses are available but if your system has acidic fluid running through it, it would only be a matter of time.

Eliminate the acidity and you eliminate the issue. Copper pipes can last a lifetime.
Would water softening alleviate a acidic situation? Or is this resolved by another method?
Softening gets rid of minerals in the water .... not too much an issue as its mainly dissolved minerals.

An acid-treatment system is an answer.

http://www.ifixh2o.com/acid-neutralizers/

One example (not recommending this particular one ~ I have one w/my well water system)

A tank that contains carbonate mineral that neutralizes acid ... replacing media every so often. I got one with an access port to add media (otherwise you'll need to take off the re-cycling motor).

Should measure acidity & pH to determine the system needed.

 
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Post by Doby » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 8:45 pm

If running all new lines say in new construction I can't see any reason not to use pex just because of the cost of copper and the ease of pex, same thing if you have to re plumb a older home due to the copper wearing out because of well water. I have seen copper L wear paper thin that you can crush it simply by putting a pipe cutter on it.


 
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Post by grumpy » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 8:52 pm

PEX Rules.......

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Post by Doby » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 8:58 pm

yea thats sweet grumpy

 
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 9:27 pm

Yes, pex would be the way to go.

 
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labman
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Post by labman » Mon. Mar. 02, 2015 10:00 pm

My exposure to this was through a plumber friend. What he showed me was to thoroughly clean all soldered joints after soldering was complete to remove all traces of the acid flux so it doesn't eat it's way through the copper over time. This was where we usually found such leaks. It seems to work?

 
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Post by plumb-r » Tue. Mar. 03, 2015 6:28 am

It's not the flux that eats the pipe it's the water. You need to neutralize acidic water with a conditioner or use a plastic pipe system. Cpvc or Pex. :)

 
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Post by SWPaDon » Tue. Mar. 03, 2015 6:40 am

When my copper lines developed pinholes, it wasn't at the soldered joints, the pinholes appeared all along the straight line runs. I have well water. The copper was replaced with pvc.

Now for the rest of the story, even though it's a little off topic. This happened while I was away for 4 weeks. I told my wife to call a plumber.
She said ok..............then she proceeded to replace all the plumbing in the house herself, with help from my young son. Out of the entire job she did, there was 1 leak I had to repair when I got home. That was about 10 years ago.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Mar. 03, 2015 7:48 am

Do it right NJJ--ONCE--pvc or pex Why re-do something that'll give ya problems down the road???

 
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Post by Lu47Dan » Tue. Mar. 03, 2015 11:04 am

CPVC and Pex are not the be all end all for Potable water systems in the home.
Both have their drawbacks, I helped a friend remodel his Century + Farm house that had been remodeled in the early 50's. He wanted CPVC piping done, unfortunately his wife turned out to be allergic to the one of the chemicals in the glue, luckily we had start with piping in the new master bath and had not started removing the copper system as yet. I replaced the CPVC piping with copper and than as he needed it done did the rest of the new piping in copper. I left the main runs in the basement, the basement is unfinished so the old piping is exposed. With all new piping in the chases and new risers piped in to the first floor he only has to worry about the old main. I slit several pieces of the old piping to inspect the interior walls and found little to no potential problems.
Pex is great stuff but it has drawbacks also. since it relies on a mechanical joint, it can fail also. I have seen failed joints more often with pex than with copper.
Yes, if your water is acidic then treat it to prevent future problems
Dan,


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