Coal Bin Dilemma

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
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Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 7:38 pm

I need some advice on my bin(that I've been building for the last two years :roll: )this morning I moved the last 1.5 tons of coal out of the area I want to put the bin
IMG_2660.JPG
It's a corner of my parking area(base is 4" of 304 vibratory rolled and topped with 4" class C concrete with wire mesh) I have had 6 tons of coal on it but in a area 11'x11'.
The bin I want to build is cinder block 112"x112" on the outside(8'x8' inside) x68" high(wall height not including the roof) with a 32" door, 2"x1"x3/16'' channel frame to hold the 2x8's it will also have a 18"x45*inward pitch(so the coal won't run out)18" off the ground for shovel access with a coal corral in front.I'm not sure on the roof yet but thats not a problem,I need feedback on just setting the block on the concrete without a dug foundation(I will pin the block to the concrete with rebar and pin and fill the each corner)I have two cracks outside the control joints but other then that It looks ok,I will put 8 tons of coal in it plus the weight of the walls which I figure is 9500+16,000=25,500lbs :shock: , so whats everyones opinion on this Idea I have?
My next choice is build a wood bin but I think It will be double in cost and It will sit on the parking area too(but can be moved if needed) but will not weigh as much.I looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say,Thanks. Keepaeyeonit :)
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio


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buffalo bob
Member
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue. Feb. 07, 2012 12:41 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: anthracite nut
Location: scpa. bedford co. buffalo mills

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 7:51 pm

dont just pin the corners pin the 8 foot walls about every 16 in. fill the holes/cores with mortar solid in fact u don't have to pin the corner hole start ur pins in the next hole then every 16 in.the corner will hold it self as thats the strongest point in the wall...good luck go for it...

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Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 8:04 pm

I'm sorry I forgot to mention that I planned to put rebar in at least one hole in every block up to the fourth course plus block mesh in the joints on every other course to the top,I like to over build things like that just in case the floor starts to go south at least the walls will stay together.
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio

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McGiever
Member
Posts: 6009
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 8:15 pm

When faced with issues such as this, remember..."What's the worst thing that could happen?"
Then are you willing to proceed???

As far as no footer, if the ground temp gets low enough and the ground is not well drained then the freeze will do some damage and quite possibly some additional damage each consecutive year. :(

To do one or the other...drainage or footer...it is best to do both.

I'm sure you've heard..."It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" ;)
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

User avatar
Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 8:54 pm

I do have under drain around the upper side of the drive/parking area which is where the bin is going(It didn't heave up like the area by the house did this winter :mad: ) but I still don't have a footer, if I decide to put one in then I have to decide,do I pour one or just use block :?: . I guess to do it 100% correct it's going to cost. Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio

User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 6009
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 10:06 pm

How about another consideration?...Any dampness inside w/ coal will freeze, especially around perimeter.

Maybe someone can share their experiences, I never stored coal outside in bin on a slab.
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

grimmy
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun. Mar. 02, 2014 7:50 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Dovre
Coal Size/Type: nut

Post Sun. Mar. 09, 2014 10:34 pm

My bin is outside, but mine is made from wood. All of the old breakers in my area had their bins made from wood. When the coal freezes, the expansion is handled alot better with wood, than block. That 's just my take.

User avatar
Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 4:43 am

Now thats a good point about freezing, so far I kept it on and under a tarp and have not had a problem with it freezing(except where the water has collected on the tarp) but my guess is thats spread out more and the air can get to it easer to dry it better.I wish I could have a indoor bin but thats out of the question with the layout of my house.If I make a wood bin I can move It If the Township gives me s--- about it being in front of my house(the house faces the North looking at the lake and not the road so anything between the house and the road is considered the front and thats where the is going)this is good,more things to think about keep them coming. Thanks

Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio


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ricoman2737
Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2009 12:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat
Other Heating: Lennox Fuel Oil boiler as a backup
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520
Location: Cincinnatus, NY 13040 (Cortland Co.)

Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 7:04 am

My coal bin is a treated wood 12' x 12' outside dimension wooden structure. The floor of the bin is approximately 6" to 8" above ground level. The treated 2" x 8" treated floor boards have a gap of about 1/8" of a gap between them for coal drainage purposes. Works great for me. Just a thought in your construction research. Good luck - John

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titleist1
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Posts: 4404
Joined: Wed. Nov. 14, 2007 4:06 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite
Location: Cecil County, MD

Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 8:07 am

A slab will sweat during those warm-up days after a cold spell, don't know if that would be an issue for you.

I made a smaller wood bin, 4w x 8L x 4h, with deck boards gapped for drainage on 4x4's. With the sloped floors it holds about 1.75 ton of rice.
I drive a VW TDI, heat my home & workshop with two coal stokers and have two vintage JD diesel tractors....
The EPA just loves me!!

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HardWood1789
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Posts: 11
Joined: Mon. Feb. 18, 2013 8:36 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer Mark IV
Location: Strasburg, Ohio

Post Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 11:06 am

Concrete block has great compressive load strength but very little lateral load strength. Over time I would expect to see cracks in the mortar and bulges in the walls for the same reason many block foundations fail. If you do go with block I would fill every core. But by doing that you likely would have more money in it than wood structure.

User avatar
Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Sun. Mar. 16, 2014 11:52 am

Thanks for the feedback.I scrapped the block idea and drew up a wood building that would hold 8 tons of nut but the cost of lumber is higher then I would like so I went looking at a idea I had sometime ago using a 250 bushel gravity box(should get almost 8 tons in it)I think If I fill it in the summer and oil the coal as I'm filling it it shouldn't freeze If I cover it to keep the water and snow out.
I found one on creigs list asking price is $750.00(box only no running gear)It's seems to be in good shape no rust or rot holes in the hopper so If I buy it I will put a good coat of paint inside and out,set it up a couple of feet so I can get 5 gal bucket under the shoot, I need some more feedback on my new Idea. Thanks

Keepaeyeonit :)
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio

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lsayre
Member
Posts: 12265
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Sun. Mar. 16, 2014 12:07 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:Thanks for the feedback.I scrapped the block idea and drew up a wood building that would hold 8 tons of nut but the cost of lumber is higher then I would like so I went looking at a idea I had sometime ago using a 250 bushel gravity box(should get almost 8 tons in it)I think If I fill it in the summer and oil the coal as I'm filling it it shouldn't freeze If I cover it to keep the water and snow out.
I found one on creigs list asking price is $750.00(box only no running gear)It's seems to be in good shape no rust or rot holes in the hopper so If I buy it I will put a good coat of paint inside and out,set it up a couple of feet so I can get 5 gal bucket under the shoot, I need some more feedback on my new Idea. Thanks

Keepaeyeonit :)
Should work fine! I entertained the same idea before finally building my coal bin. The only negative feedback I got (if you can call it that) at the time was that the discharge chute would require modification to make it work with a pail.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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windyhill4.2
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Posts: 5028
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038

Post Sun. Mar. 16, 2014 12:31 pm

If you go with the gravity bin ,set it higher on the side away from the chute so the coal will slide a bit easier,some gravity bins do not have quite enough slope to slide without help.
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

rwwsr
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun. Jan. 21, 2007 11:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: ahs s260 3
Coal Size/Type: pea
Location: Dover, Delaware

Post Sun. Mar. 16, 2014 9:26 pm

I have used 3 different side discharge grain bins and get at best 50% of the pea coal to gravity flow. Then it's rake, shovel or refill. I still use one now, maybe holds 4t and refill with loader when coal stops flowing. Works fine and was very economic to set up, wood "A" frame with a classy H.Freight camo tarp for cover (wife loves the look :shock: ).
Randy


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