Newb - Verify Existing Chimney Will Suffice for Coal Stove

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
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Berlin
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal
Location: Buffalo/Adirondacks, NY

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 4:24 pm

As was mentioned clearances were not right on that stove. Since that wasn't right, check the clearances where the stovepipe goes through the wall - make sure there's nothing combustable within 18" of that thimble (studs, drywall etc) ; looks like you'll have to do a little work there to make it safe.
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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skobydog
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
Location: Greenfield MA

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 6:42 pm

Berlin wrote:As was mentioned clearances were not right on that stove. Since that wasn't right, check the clearances where the stovepipe goes through the wall - make sure there's nothing combustable within 18" of that thimble (studs, drywall etc) ; looks like you'll have to do a little work there to make it safe.
Now you got me thinking. The current exhaust is less than 18" to the ceiling. :(

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Hitzer 50-93
Open Floor Plan
Stove is located on the first floor/living room
Heating appr 2,200 sq ft
House built 1976
Moderate Insulation

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KLook
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 7:24 pm

Wood fires burn with very high stovepipe temps. You will never set the ceiling on fire with coal and that clearance. Getting insurance might be an issue. The other solution is a double wall pipe coming out of the thimble and turning down. Clearance are only 2 inches with double wall insulated pipe. You would need a T in fact as they don't make an elbow in insulated pipe. You could put the barometric in the T for coal. And cover it or remove it for wood. I personally leave the baro in for wood but that will touch off a major shouting match. Probably not a good idea in a terra cotta chimney and it would seem you have scant experience in solid fuel burning. Let the debate begin.

Kevin

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grumpy
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Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 7:28 pm

Yeah your clearances are all wrong. You can do this, I think that will get you down to nine inches per national fire code. I also hung a piece of brass on the ceiling one inch down and put a half inch of fiberglass in between taken from a ceiling tile.
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grumpy
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Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 7:32 pm

Getting insurance might be an issue.
As I tell people don't cut corners or skip inspection, do it by the book, because it would really suck if your house burnt down and your insurance company told you to take a hike.


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skobydog
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
Location: Greenfield MA

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 8:54 pm

KLook wrote:The other solution is a double wall pipe coming out of the thimble and turning down.

Kevin
From a couple of websites I've found that "most of the double-wall stovepipe allows for 6" clearance from wall combustibles and 8" from ceiling combustibles". Looks like that's the solution....hopefully 8-)
Hitzer 50-93
Open Floor Plan
Stove is located on the first floor/living room
Heating appr 2,200 sq ft
House built 1976
Moderate Insulation

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KLook
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 9:07 pm

Stainless steel, much maligned by purists, is used by a lot of us. In a vertical chimney chase, 2 inches is the code for an insulated pipe such as Selkirk Metalbestos. You would need to have it tight against the chimney unless the thimble is more in code then the ceiling height. This could be accomplished with a double male end short stovepipe piece. These can be found in stainless also. This arrangement would be heavy but it might all be held up by the pipe underneath it. With coal you have to screw all the joints together. This pipe is not pretty. I would use this arrangement as a last resort. It will be costly to lower the thimble to a correct height. All the heat shields and solutions will not be graceful or pretty. But they will work.

Kevin

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KLook
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 9:09 pm

From a couple of websites I've found that "most of the double-wall stovepipe allows for 6" clearance from wall combustibles and 8" from ceiling combustibles
Note you said DOUBLE WALL and I said insulated. But that is fine, double wall is much lighter and if it fits the bill great. It also is probably a little prettier.

Kevin

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KLook
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 9:11 pm

Check the clearances where that thimble passes through the wall. It must have clearances all the way to the chimney.

Kevin

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2001Sierra
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
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Location: Wynantskill NY, 10 miles from Albany

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 10:11 pm

You don't want to see my neighbors wood stove install. She bought the house a few years back and I can only assume she has insurance, scary install to say the least. :roll: My install is through block wall with 24 inch to combustibles with a pipe that rarely sees 200 degrees, most time I can hang onto after the baro easily for a long time. I am sure I have a post as to temps if you want me to find it.


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Berlin
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal
Location: Buffalo/Adirondacks, NY

Post Tue. Sep. 03, 2013 11:32 pm

double wall connecting pipe is the simple solution to the ceiling issue, they do make it with T's and elbows, so I'm not sure why other posters think it's not available in those configurations.

What I'm more concerned with is what is in the wall around the thimble, did the original builders or installers follow code? If it were my house I'd be less concerned about a few inches short of 18 to the ceiling and more concerned with whether there is combustable material within a few inches of the thimble - It's not uncommon to find studs only a few inches away from a thimble (improper). Although code is 18, with coal it's more important to make sure it's 14,16,or 18 inches away from nearest combustable than 2" away - which IS a problem. I would tear into the wall (razor blade cut the sheetrock 18" all sides (except ceiling obviously) and see what's there before I worried about anything else.
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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KLook
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Posts: 3632
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Wed. Sep. 04, 2013 7:35 am

so I'm not sure why other posters think it's not available in those configurations.
A quick review shows the other poster did say that INSULATED does not come with elbows, at least the Selkirk brand. You added T's to the list. And I also expressed concern about what is around the thimble as it is not visible.

Kevin

waldo lemieux
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Post Wed. Sep. 04, 2013 7:52 am

The sheetrock is not an issue. In fact if it is type "x" it will give the wall assembly a 1/2 to 1hr fire rating depending on thickness. Wall thimbles also have a fire rating and depending on the unit the one pictured may be fine. The hearth most certainly is a problem ,way to narrow. Anyhow "clearance to combustibles" does not apply to type x sheetrock as it has a fire rating.
When faced with a seemingly impossible task, my grandfather always said "can't never can, untill try comes along"

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skobydog
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
Location: Greenfield MA

Post Wed. Sep. 04, 2013 11:20 am

I just spoke with the local dealer for Selkirk. It looks like their DSP line will work this scenario. The DSP will reduce all clearances from 18in to 6in including ceiling. Although the cost is more than anticipated at least I'll be able to tuck the stove in a little tighter against the wall.

I'll still have to demo out the old hearth and put a new one in but I think I'm on my way. Thanks to all you for your help :)
Hitzer 50-93
Open Floor Plan
Stove is located on the first floor/living room
Heating appr 2,200 sq ft
House built 1976
Moderate Insulation

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