Entran II Tubing

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cmazzabrennan
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Post by cmazzabrennan » Fri. Mar. 15, 2013 8:57 pm

We just found out that our Entran II tubing in our radiant floor has failed (installed in early 90's?) We bought the house in 2004. I have been searching and have seen info regarding class actions in the past. My question is what do we do at this point. Do we have to eat the cost of ripping up our floor/slab and replacing? I am assuming it is too late to benefit from the lawsuit. Can anyone tell me? Any suggestions on who I should talk to? Division of consumer affairs (we live in Mass). Would our homeowners' insurance pay for anything? We just found out today and trying to figure out what to do. Any help would be very much appreciated.

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Fri. Mar. 15, 2013 9:03 pm

From what I can see, that stuff was manufactured from '89 - '94, so it's been around a while. Just found some info saying the claim deadline was November 17, 2009.

Sorry to tell you this, but you might be SOL. Maybe you can get insurance to pay for it ... BUT .. remember that your rates WILL skyrocket next year, so what are you really saving? They'll make all that money back from you in a few years of exorbitant rates. Besides the fact that they'll pull out all the punches to give you the LEAST amount possible .. or deny it altogether.

Insurance companies - a necessary evil ... :x

 
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Post by cmazzabrennan » Fri. Mar. 15, 2013 9:17 pm

thanks for the reply. that's what I was afraid of :sick:

 
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Post by Freddy » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 5:09 am

I used Entran II for my radiant heat when we built this place in 1993. I ended up in the lawsuit & actually got money....just enough to buy new tubing. I was hoping it would cover labor to remove, replace, but, no. Mine is "staple up" so it's possible to remove & replace. Those with "in the concrete" got more money per square foot, but, again, not nearly enough to do the entire job. Like most any lawsuits, the lawyers made out like fat rats & the people that deserved the money didn't get nearly enough to cover costs of repair. On one hand, yes, I believe you are too late to get anything. On the other hand, sadly, you wouldn't have gotten enough to repair the floor anyway. *sigh*

You see, at this point they look at it like this: It was warranted for 25 years. It's been over 20 years since it was manufactured. If yours failed now, it served it's purpose for over 20 years. They pro rate it and would only owe you 20% of the cost. Even if you got money it wouldn't be enough to buy three cheeseburgers.

It sounds like yours is in the concrete. Most people in this situation end up going with baseboard.... not an easy job at all, but, far less than a new floor. Some go with a "on top of the floor" radiant. It's more expensive by far and you lose some headroom.


 
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Post by cmazzabrennan » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 6:20 am

:oops: :shock: Thanks for the info. Wow, this is a drag. Wonder if the party we purchased the house from collected the money...
I'd like to think that they wouldn't do that. Wonder if there is any way to find out...
I do hate the tile in there and it is cracked, but I have no idea how much it would cost to remove everything and start over.
How much vertical space would doing on top of floor take?
Agree with you about the lawyers always making out. Trying to talk my son into studying law... :lol:

 
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Post by Freddy » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 7:27 am

There's two ways that I know of to go on top....one is 2" of "gypcrete". You staple tubing to the floor. You add dams as needed & cut doors as needed. Then you pour this liquid over the tubing & it hardens. The other way is a system that is about an inch and a quarter thick.... tubing in special races & plywood over.

So... your tubing is in concrete? Is it leaking in the concrete? I'm still using mine. It has turned brown and lost it's rubberyness. It was leaking at all the fittings. I added clamps & for now it's OK. It WILL fail I am told. IF it had leaked other than at the fittings I would have gotten double the money...an extra $1,200. Crazy lawsuit. On one hand they told me it WILL fail completely, yet, because it hasn't yet, they wouldn't pay as much. That's part of the pro-rated thinking.

 
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Post by cmazzabrennan » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 9:45 am

I assume you put your flooring over the gypcrete? Tile, wood, etc. Strange thought - what if you did a stained concrete floor. Wonder if that would make it any easier/cheaper?

For us, the actual tubing is failing though we also had failures at the fittings. Our radiant floor in mudroom is still working, but seems that they used the same tubing to run to the baseboard FHW in the room over the garage. That is the tubing that has failed at this point. We could do something to run pipes to room over garage for now and leave the radiant and wait for it to fail I guess.

From what you describe about the lawsuit, the sad thing is that it is not just about the product not working, it's about having to demo and redo everything. I don't mind if something fails and you have to get a new one, but this is crazy. That's life I guess.

 
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Post by cmazzabrennan » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 9:47 am

Actually, we really don't know if the tubing IN the concrete is leaking, but heat is still working...


 
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Post by waldo lemieux » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 6:15 pm

if the previous knew(were notified) they are legally obligated to tell you.If they knew and didnt tell you your problems are over, any halfwit lawer can walk you through that. It is gonna be hard to find out what they knew and when, maybe check with the local plumbing contractors and see if prev. owners or the builder ever were asked to estimate replacement or repairs. Like I said ,if they knew, your in... 8-)

 
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Post by Freddy » Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 6:57 pm

cmazzabrennan wrote:we really don't know if the tubing IN the concrete is leaking, but heat is still working...

Well... I suggest that you do what I am doing..... keep the water to the boiler shut off & check the pressure manually every couple of months. With the water turned off if it springs a serious leak at least it will only leak a few gallons.

 
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Post by Freddy » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 10:24 am

Here it is, 6 years later. My tubing is now 25 years and 5 months old. It has now failed and leaking. It made it through the warranty! LOL I write because I see a "new" similar tubing, Onix, made by Watts Radiant. I'm about to purchase an armload of that & install it as time goes on. I got about $1,400 from the class action lawsuit & am about to spend $1,750 on tubing. I have been comfy for 25 years..... and this new stuff should last longer. I like the idea of rubber tubing as it is silent. Pex makes expansion noises forever.

 
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Post by AllanD » Wed. Feb. 13, 2019 2:08 am

Freddy wrote:
Sat. Mar. 16, 2013 6:57 pm
Well... I suggest that you do what I am doing..... keep the water to the boiler shut off & check the pressure manually every couple of months. With the water turned off if it springs a serious leak at least it will only leak a few gallons.

I don't have the OP's problem fortunately, I have an Oil fired baseboard hot water system, but a note on shutting off the water to the boiler, one of my neighbors recently bought flood insurance and was surprised that his insurance carrier INSISTED on his installing a positive shutoff in the feed to his boiler...... because any failure in his system would involve a well pump powered flood.

He, being an electrical engineer, installed flood alarm sensors and tied them into the power controller to his well pump, and demonstrated the system for my by turning on the faucet in his laundry sink then sloshing a glass of water
on one of his electronic flood sensors. It all seems to work as he intends it to.
But after cutting the power it still bled down the contents of his accumulator tank, I suggested a solenoid valve on the output, but a low voltage one so he could still get water during power outages...

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