Heed the Warning!

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
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Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Fri. Nov. 23, 2012 9:10 pm

I know It's been talked about before but all of you that have SS liners,or us insert guys that have a pipe going past the smoke shelf check it out.I started my stove on Nov 2 but noticed it was running with a lower then normal draft but not real low just not the same as in the past,after coming home to a house of CO alarms sounding two days in a row because of a lost draft I shut it down and tore it apart to find this,the two pics are the part that is in the clay
IMG_1389.jpg
IMG_1390.jpg
and right above the tee and baro
IMG_1392.jpg
the pipe is only two years old and unless It's marked wrong It's 316TI,I put it back together with a piece of new 304 from my old liner( I think it should last until spring) but I will do something with it weather it be install it the way thay say to(Hitzer) or fab a blockoff plate with a removable pipe yo isolate the stove from the flue.Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio


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CoalHeat
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Posts: 8327
Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Fri. Nov. 23, 2012 9:39 pm

Excellent post, thank you for the photos.
You can never be too safe.
A good reminder for everyone to check the smoke pipes and chimneys and make sure you have working smoke and CO detectors.
Heating season is upon us!
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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Joeski
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Posts: 233
Joined: Sun. Nov. 14, 2010 12:01 am
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Susquehanna
Location: Collegeville & Stroudsburg, Pa

Post Fri. Nov. 23, 2012 10:17 pm

I am a rookie. I am still trying to hook up my stoker. :bang: I have driven myself crazy researching again and again and again. I have had 2 installers out who insists on putting in stainless steel chimneys. One outside of my chase one inside my chase. The outside of the chase was quoted at around $7000 so that was an easy no way, no thank you. The inside of the chase installer was quoting a range between $3000 & $4000. That was a how about you install my power vent instead. No response back from that guy since last Sunday Your photo's posted sure has me glad I am going to power vent until I can get a proper masonry chimney put up next year or the year after.

I hope you get it fixed and have no more problems.

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Wiz
Member
Posts: 926
Joined: Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:45 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Fri. Nov. 23, 2012 11:03 pm

Your photo's posted sure has me glad I am going to power vent until I can get a proper masonry chimney put up next year or the year after.
When you decide to do a masonry chimney let me know. I'll give you the person I used, $750 for a 26 ft masonry chimney.
Randy
If you have time to make a post looking for free advice, then show some appreciation and say thank you.

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Berlin
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Posts: 1847
Joined: Thu. Feb. 09, 2006 1:25 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal
Location: Buffalo/Adirondacks, NY

Post Sat. Nov. 24, 2012 12:39 am

Joeski wrote:I am a rookie. I am still trying to hook up my stoker. :bang: I have driven myself crazy researching again and again and again. I have had 2 installers out who insists on putting in stainless steel chimneys. One outside of my chase one inside my chase. The outside of the chase was quoted at around $7000 so that was an easy no way, no thank you. The inside of the chase installer was quoting a range between $3000 & $4000. That was a how about you install my power vent instead. No response back from that guy since last Sunday Your photo's posted sure has me glad I am going to power vent until I can get a proper masonry chimney put up next year or the year after.

I hope you get it fixed and have no more problems.
why wait until next year? for less than both those quotes, why not hire a mason and get it done with now? The weather hasn't been that bad. It shouldn't take a good mason more than a few days start to finish.

Keepaeyeonit, I've seen worse, but it doesn't take long to start having problems with stainless. That's why I'm a fan of installing a heavy steel plate in place of the damper and connecting a VERY short section of pip to that, with an insert it can be difficult though. 316ti or 316L is about as good as it gets for economical corrosion resistant stainless steel. 304 will be even shorter lived. It probably is not mis-marked, I've seen 316ti fail (other members on here have posted pics of its failure as well) and I've seen 304 and so on - it's rare any survive for long.
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Tue. Nov. 27, 2012 8:35 pm

Well here's a not so good update,relit the stove on Friday night @ 7.00PM draft still seemed low(32*outside), Saturday morning I did a shake down and a 20# reload the fire livened up nice the fire was ok for the day,did another 20# reload at 8:00PM now Sunday was not so good had a low draft all day(40* outside)I removed the cap from the chimney and that made it worse(I think the light wind was blowing from the South over the trees and down my flue)I also noticed the top of the chimney had no warm gas coming out of it and seemed to be real cold,I had two windows cracked by the stove but nothing was working,did a reload at 4:30PM.4:30 Monday morning the stove was fantastic :D (.05 WC,350* stove temp,and 35* outside)did a shake and reload of 18#,came home at 7:00PM to a CO reading of 45 to 70PPM in the house and a dying fire and no draft so I got the fire going again did a good shake and a reload and closed up the stove for the night,around 9:30PM I got a faint whiff of sulfur so I went to check on the stove the CO detectors were reading 0 so I got my handheld meter to check the air and it read 5 to 7 PPM :mad: so I spent the next 2 1/2 hrs trying to put out the fire.I have no idea what the hell the problem is(internal air leaks in the chimney,pipe is no good or I have a air leak in the insulation) but I ordered a new top surround piece so I can try just putting the stove in per Hitzer without all the *censored*(pipe and insulation)and see I the extra heat will help with the draft.If I can't get a draft then I will have to burn oil this winter at $4.00/gal :( but safety is the number one thing and if I don't feel comfortable with it I will not use it,next update soon to some.Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio

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Poconoeagle
Member
Posts: 6403
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2008 7:26 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska
Location: Tobyhanna PA

Post Tue. Nov. 27, 2012 8:52 pm

if the detectors were reading zero...hand held of 5-7 ppm is a non issue.
the hand held routinely reads 35ppm in the building with the forklifts always running... 60 is the point of real concern although I try to not let it go above 35....
"Do it Right the First Time" dont leave it for the next guy, as YOU may be the Next guy!!

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Flyer5
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 10382
Joined: Sun. Oct. 21, 2007 4:23 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Location: Montrose PA
Contact:

Post Tue. Nov. 27, 2012 9:17 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:if the detectors were reading zero...hand held of 5-7 ppm is a non issue.
the hand held routinely reads 35ppm in the building with the forklifts always running... 60 is the point of real concern although I try to not let it go above 35....
I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to almost beg someone to check their liner when they call with draft issues. Soon as I hear they have a liner exactly what I expect. Glad to hear you found it and everyone was safe.
http://www.leisurelinestove.com


You know when people say it was "better back in my day"?

They were right.


User avatar
Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Tue. Nov. 27, 2012 9:25 pm

I think the max for CO is 50PPM in a 8 hrs in a work place but a house is no more then 8 or 9 but I would like to have 0 in my house,I know I have a problem with something but I don't know what and it's pissing me off,I did good the first two years burning coal but the first three weeks of the third year is testing my patience :mad: :mad: :mad: .Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio

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Poconoeagle
Member
Posts: 6403
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2008 7:26 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska
Location: Tobyhanna PA

Post Tue. Nov. 27, 2012 9:33 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:I think the max for CO is 50PPM in a 8 hrs in a work place but a house is no more then 8 or 9 but I would like to have 0 in my house,I know I have a problem with something but I don't know what and it's pissing me off,I did good the first two years burning coal but the first three weeks of the third year is testing my patience :mad: :mad: :mad: .Keepaeyeonit
AHH hmm I thought I read my home co detectors wont sound till they hit 60 and issues really start over 100 ;)
the safety guy at work I thought said OSHA set 35 as a # for the 8 hour shift

im also in the zero is better school of thought though..... have you snooped around with the incense burning looking for it to be drawn in to stove as well as blown out???
"Do it Right the First Time" dont leave it for the next guy, as YOU may be the Next guy!!

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Berlin
Site Moderator
Posts: 1847
Joined: Thu. Feb. 09, 2006 1:25 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal
Location: Buffalo/Adirondacks, NY

Post Tue. Nov. 27, 2012 11:11 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:Well here's a not so good update,relit the stove on Friday night @ 7.00PM draft still seemed low(32*outside), Saturday morning I did a shake down and a 20# reload the fire livened up nice the fire was ok for the day,did another 20# reload at 8:00PM now Sunday was not so good had a low draft all day(40* outside)I removed the cap from the chimney and that made it worse(I think the light wind was blowing from the South over the trees and down my flue)I also noticed the top of the chimney had no warm gas coming out of it and seemed to be real cold,I had two windows cracked by the stove but nothing was working,did a reload at 4:30PM.4:30 Monday morning the stove was fantastic :D (.05 WC,350* stove temp,and 35* outside)did a shake and reload of 18#,came home at 7:00PM to a CO reading of 45 to 70PPM in the house and a dying fire and no draft so I got the fire going again did a good shake and a reload and closed up the stove for the night,around 9:30PM I got a faint whiff of sulfur so I went to check on the stove the CO detectors were reading 0 so I got my handheld meter to check the air and it read 5 to 7 PPM :mad: so I spent the next 2 1/2 hrs trying to put out the fire.I have no idea what the hell the problem is(internal air leaks in the chimney,pipe is no good or I have a air leak in the insulation) but I ordered a new top surround piece so I can try just putting the stove in per Hitzer without all the *censored*(pipe and insulation)and see I the extra heat will help with the draft.If I can't get a draft then I will have to burn oil this winter at $4.00/gal :( but safety is the number one thing and if I don't feel comfortable with it I will not use it,next update soon to some.Keepaeyeonit
Is the termination of your stack higher than the highest point of your house? If not you will have trouble, especially in mild weather. A properly built stack of the correct height won't need a liner even with an oversized flue for the appliance. If it's close, stick another tile liner on top of the current one, mix up a bag of fiber reinforced concrete and pack the concrete on top of the crown around the tile to hold it securely in place - bear in mind this is a TEMPORARY repair and a chase must be built around the tile for safe, long-term use.
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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Lightning
Member
Posts: 8304
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size
Location: Olean, NY

Post Wed. Nov. 28, 2012 2:05 am

My Kidie Nighthawk CO alarms won't register anything until its over 30 ppm. Anything under that amount isn't a concern. A 5-7 ppm is normal in a closed environment. But back to your draft issue. I'm betting something isn't sealed somewhere between the stove and chimney and its cannibalizing your draft. I take it you are trying to seal the pipe to the chimney with insulation right? Maybe it isn't sealing very good.

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Wiz
Member
Posts: 926
Joined: Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:45 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Wed. Nov. 28, 2012 5:21 am

incense burning looking for it to be drawn in to stove as well as blown out
Good way to determine issue on outside of stove. ;)
Randy
If you have time to make a post looking for free advice, then show some appreciation and say thank you.

User avatar
Keepaeyeonit
Member
Posts: 1036
Joined: Wed. Mar. 24, 2010 7:18 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #8
Coal Size/Type: Direnzo nut, Lehigh stove
Other Heating: 45 year old oil furnace,and a crappy 24 year old heat pump
Location: Northeast Ohio.

Post Wed. Nov. 28, 2012 9:04 am

Poconoeagle wrote:if the detectors were reading zero...hand held of 5-7 ppm is a non issue.
the hand held routinely reads 35ppm in the building with the forklifts always running... 60 is the point of real concern although I try to not let it go above 35....
Yes 35PPM is the right number
Berlin wrote:Is the termination of your stack higher than the highest point of your house? If not you will have trouble, especially in mild weather. A properly built stack of the correct height won't need a liner even with an oversized flue for the appliance. If it's close, stick another tile liner on top of the current one, mix up a bag of fiber reinforced concrete and pack the concrete on top of the crown around the tile to hold it securely in place - bear in mind this is a TEMPORARY repair and a chase must be built around the tile for safe, long-term use.
Yes Berlin the top of the stack is 4' higher then the roof,I also think I may do that to(add 2' more just for the winter)just to see if It's helps.
Wiz wrote:
incense burning looking for it to be drawn in to stove as well as blown out
Good way to determine issue on outside of stove. ;)
Wiz,I keep them on hand all the time for checking air leaks in windows,air flow,and for the stove which I found no leaks.Thanks Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
Northeast,Ohio

jrn8265
Member
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue. Jul. 22, 2008 11:52 am
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Wed. Nov. 28, 2012 10:54 am

I have a 26 ft 316ti SS liner.

I brush and vacume it out at the end of each season, have a good rain cap on it, and allow it to vent properly during the off season so there is no moisture build up and my liner is as good as the first day it was installed 6 years ago and I have been burning coal now through it for 5 years.

So they last if you take care of them!


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