Off the Wall Idea Here!

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JiminBucks
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Posts: 134
Joined: Tue. Oct. 23, 2007 11:21 am
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie
Location: Upper Bucks Co. PA

Post Fri. Nov. 30, 2007 11:11 am

Has anyone tried this type of setup here? Currently I have two handfired units hooked up and working. The 'new' Franco Belge piped into my fireplace Chimney in the family room doorstairs that can almost heat the whole living minus a bedroom or two on mild days, not below 25 degrees at night. Now my other unit is hooked up to the inside oil burner chimney and I will be using this 'as required' for that extra heat when colder nights arrive. This unit heats the core of the house, but doesn't burn 24/7. And of course there is the old oil burner that is now my backup. Currently it isn't connected to the chimney but can be brought back on-line in about 1/2 hr after connectinf it up to the capped 'T' connector. Now the oil burner is tied into my baseboard heating system, but isn't be utilized.
Here's the crack-pot idea. What if were to pull out the 'oil firing guts', cap off the oil tank connection, and move away. Now if I were to pipe the exhaust from the Auxilty stove into the oil burner and use the exhaust exit to vent into the inside chimney, and cap off the other side of the 'T'. Now my exhaust gases would heat up the existing water jacket inside the old oil burner, and all I need to do is bypass the electronics and have the cirulating pump operate independently there by distrubuting the heat to those other bedrooms.
Other then the problems invovled in having the circuling pump cycle on and off. The only thing that might be an issue is creating enough draft to get the EFEL burning, and maybe sucking too much heat out of the unit to keep it burning? Of course the heater would have to be sealed up extra tight to avoid exhaust leakage, but it is intact. This setup could only be used on the weekends or during cold night when the Primary F/B is not able to heat the whole house. Another issue would be that the exhaust would have to be piped 'downward' after exiting the stove "from 17ins high down closer to floor level where it would enter the oil burner where the firing unit was removed.
Now that I've got you all thinking, 'is he nuts', anybody ever try such a thing? Is it legal? etc.

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LsFarm
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Joined: Sun. Nov. 20, 2005 8:02 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland
Location: Michigan

Post Fri. Nov. 30, 2007 2:59 pm

The exhaust gasses from a coal stove contain sulphur, this mixed with a tiny amount of moisture or humidity from the air will make sulphuric acid. This will eat up your oil boiler very fast, maybe in only one season. It is not unusual to have to replace the chimney flue piping on a coal stove every season due to the acidic fumes..

So no I certainly would not recommend what you are suggesting. The amount of heat from your stove would unlikely be able to get the water up to anything much above room temp anyway. there is a lot of water and cooling area in a baseboard system..

By the way, be careful with your baseboard system, I had a wood stove running in a house many years ago, and the baseboard system was dormant.. a section near an uninsulated area froze and broke the pipe, flooding a room or two.. You should circulate the water either on a timer or continously to keep it uniform temp, not any cold to freezing..

Keep an eye open for a coal boiler, that is what you really want and need, it will take care of the whole house and hot water too.

Hope this makes sense.

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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JiminBucks
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Joined: Tue. Oct. 23, 2007 11:21 am
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie
Location: Upper Bucks Co. PA

Post Fri. Nov. 30, 2007 3:37 pm

Thanks Greg. Yes when it gets really cold, like in the teens or below I am worried about one section of the existing system at the far end of the house. Option one is to completely bring the system off-line. Drain the baseboard pipes and not worry about it. Another option is to run the circlulating pump only, to reverse heat the water in the system. and third is to crank up the kerosene heater in the garage to warm up the floor in the far end of the house.
As far as the boiler is concerned, this one in place is 22 years old and ready to be replaced. I picked up a used oil furnace last year but haven't done anything with it yet, so I'm not really concerned if the boiler gets eaten alive by the sulphuric acid. Maybe I will just leave everything in place as is. Easy button! :D

I have a feeling heating oil will drop in price if we get a warm spell in the middle of winter. Then I can at least fill my tank up one last time!
Good to have something in place to keep the house warm when away for a weekend and such.

Maybe in the spring, I can try out this idea, after the cold part of winter has passed!


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CoalHeat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Fri. Nov. 30, 2007 6:42 pm

I would not connect a set-up as you have indicated, too many chances for things to go wrong, plus the items that Greg mentioned. As far as keeping the house warm when you are away for a long period, keeping the oil furnace available is a good idea. Draining the system is the easiest and cheapest way to avoid frozen pipes. With baseboards it shouldn't take a long time to refill it if you need the system running.

I would look for a used oil/coal furnace, that would solve the problem. Or at the very least a stoker stove that you can install in the basement that would give you a longer burn time.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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traderfjp
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Post Sat. Dec. 01, 2007 11:22 am

I had a 40 ft. S.S 316 coil made for the top of my stove. My goal is to heat a basement so I'll pump the water through the coils and into my boiler and see if I can accomplish my goal. If it works I'll let you know but this may be an alternative.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

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Richard S.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Post Sat. Dec. 01, 2007 12:01 pm

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen with little benefit.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein


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traderfjp
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Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
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Post Sat. Dec. 01, 2007 2:07 pm

Richard: Don't beat around the bush. How do you really feel about his idea. :D
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

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JiminBucks
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Joined: Tue. Oct. 23, 2007 11:21 am
Stove/Furnace Make: EFEL \ Franco Belge
Stove/Furnace Model: Classic Lion \ Normandie
Location: Upper Bucks Co. PA

Post Mon. Dec. 03, 2007 11:44 am

Thanks guys! I will leave this as is for now. It got real cold Sat night down to 21, so I did get to play with the controller wiring and now I can have the circuling pump cycle on and off without the boiler firing. Using the thermoset to keep the water flowing. In the process I discovered a loose wire that was causing another problem with this old junker. When I last test fired it just kept firing and wouldn't stop after it reached full temp. Back in Oct , it actually blew the presure saftly value! :shock:
I do like the coil idea!, maybe when I get the replacement heater installed next year, I can take the cold return pipe and add some kind of heat exchange to preheat the water before it goes back into the boiler?
I did fire up both stoves over the weekend. By Sat evening I was hanging out in the living room upstairs in shorts tee shirt and barefeet! :roll:

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